Adam and Christopher interview Chapter Advisor Robert B. Huffman (Western Kentucky) and his son, Robert F. Huffman about Men's Health Awareness Month. Topics include a range of men's health issues, including prostate cancer, testicular cancer, mental health, and navigating awkward conversations about these important matters impacting our brotherhood.
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Men's Health with Robert Huffman (Western Kentucky) and Robert Huffman
[Introduction Music]
0:00:42.2 Adam Girtz: Hello, and welcome to Episode Number 11 of the Gavel Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Adam.
0:00:47.6 Christopher Brenton: And I'm your other host, Christopher.
0:00:49.9 Adam Girtz: The Gavel Podcast is the official podcast of Sigma Nu Fraternity, and it's a show dedicated to keeping you updated on the operations of the Legion of Honor and connecting you to the stories from our brotherhood.
0:01:00.8 Christopher Brenton: To find out more from the Fraternity, you can always check out our website at sigmanu.org, and you can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter @sigmanuhq or by searching for us at Sigma Nu Fraternity.
0:01:13.1 Adam Girtz: Christopher.
0:01:13.3 Christopher Brenton: How's it going, Adam?
0:01:15.2 Adam Girtz: [chuckle] It's great, it's great. I'm very jazzed up by our new intro. I think that's very exciting. I think it sounds great.
0:01:22.8 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. For those of you who are tuning in, Adam and I have been playing around with the podcast a little bit and have kind of settled on a more official introduction, so you'll start to hear that as kind of a consistent intro for each of our episodes from here on out.
0:01:38.7 Adam Girtz: Consistency, that's our theme for today.
0:01:41.6 Christopher Brenton: That is key.
0:01:42.9 Adam Girtz: Our other theme for today is Men's Health, and I'm very excited about our interview. I had a great time with this interview, and I think it's a topic near and dear to our organization and to you, me, your father, my father, the sons that we don't have yet.
0:02:05.3 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, absolutely. Well, we are a men's fraternity, and so Men's Health Awareness Month, which is happening here in the month of November, is so important to us and to our constituents, and to our members. It's definitely a relevant conversation. But I will admit it is kind of a little bit sad. I know that Drew Logsdon, a former co-host of the Gavel Podcast, was a huge advocate of this topic in particular, and he was really a great staff champion for doing more to increase awareness on these issues and for us getting involved in men's health awareness efforts, and so this is in a little bit of a spiritual tribute to Drew, that we're getting the chance to have this conversation, I know that he'll enjoy it, but certainly, I know that he probably would have really enjoyed being on this episode as well as a host, but we'll have to settle for him just being a listener today, but maybe in the future, we can have him back on for this topic.
0:03:08.7 Adam Girtz: Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is a topic relevant all the time, and hopefully, like you said, we can do more episodes on this in the future. We have done "Your Mental Health" in the past, just general mental health with Ross Szabo, another kind of similar but in a different vein interview on the same topic or on a similar topic, I guess. So, speaking of the interview, can you walk me through how this interview came to be and who our guests are?
0:03:44.1 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, absolutely. So, for those of you who are unaware, you will probably be familiar with certain months of the year or days of the year being designated as particular holidays or kind of periods of awareness. So, you have like Black History Month, or you have... like in the NFL, Breast Cancer Awareness Month, so all of the teams will don pink on their uniforms in kind of recognition of that. Well, the month of November is Men's Health Awareness Month, and it's a month dedicated to having maybe potentially hard or awkward conversations about issues that impact men specifically, so issues like testicular cancer, prostate cancer, but certainly there are, within that conversation, things that affect an entire population of people, things like suicide and mental health, but we do know that there is a disproportionate impact on men on those topics, and so this is also a period of time in which we can reflect and have conversations about that as well. So, knowing that Men's Health Awareness Month is during the month of November, we wanted to bring in some subject matter experts or some at least some people who could kind of help us have this conversation through a Sigma Nu lens.
0:05:08.7 Christopher Brenton: And so, we're really excited that the two guests that we have on the podcast today are a father and son pair, a first for the Gavel Podcast. And their names are Robert Huffman and Robert Huffman. So, you're going to hear from us refer to Mr. Huffman, the father, as Mr. Huffman, and then Robert Huffman, the son, as Robert Huffman. But, just a little bit of background. So, Mr. Huffman is an Eta Rho. So, a member of our Western Kentucky Chapter, and he is currently the Chapter Advisor. His son, who unfortunately did not have a chance to join Sigma Nu, he went to Florida Atlantic University, and Sigma Nu was not on campus at that time. We have since colonized a group there, but unfortunately, we missed the opportunity to recruit Robert. But Robert, after joining Delta Tau Delta at FAU, he actually went to go work for the Movember Foundation. And many of our listeners are likely familiar with that work, they're the organization that is all about growing a mustache, and that conversation around the mustache leading to really great conversations with others about the importance of men's health awareness, specifically, again, for getting tested for testicular cancer, prostate cancer, etcetera, but then also other conversations around men's health, mental health, and suicide prevention.
0:06:43.1 Adam Girtz: Absolutely.
0:06:43.2 Christopher Brenton: Robert no longer works for the Movember Foundation, but you'll hear during our interview a lot of focus on the Movember Foundation from his time working with that organization. He's since left. And actually, we were able to bring him back into the fold, he's now, or he has been a colony advisor for Iota Rho Colony at College of Charleston, which is where he was located when he was pursuing his master's degree at the College of Charleston. So, we've been able to keep it in the Sigma Nu family, even if we weren't able to get him during initiation, but we're really excited to have both Robert and Mr. Huffman on the podcast today to talk about Men's Health, why it's important, and also to bring in that father-son perspective that's really valuable for this conversation.
0:07:32.6 Adam Girtz: Definitely. Yeah, I really enjoyed this. I thought getting to see the conversation and hear about their conversations together as father and son about your mental health and about men's health was, I think, really inspiring. So, any other information about the interview before we get a couple of other housekeeping things before we kick it over to the interview though?
0:08:02.2 Christopher Brenton: I can't think of anything personally. Was there anything that you wanted to bring up?
0:08:07.9 Adam Girtz: Yeah, just before we get into the interview itself, a couple of things I wanted to let everyone know about, as we are plotting our course and chatting where we want to go for season three or four of the second year of our podcast, so we really appreciate all of the great feedback and support that we've gotten for the podcast as we've gone through this first year of it, it's been a really awesome journey and spend a lot of fun to have these different conversations to be able to share some of these with our listeners as well.
0:08:43.2 Adam Girtz: So, if you have ideas for potential topics or if you potentially have a recommendation for somebody that you would like to see interviewed, no guarantees that we fit every idea in or that we're able to take action on every idea, but we really would love to hear from you guys on that. So, where can people submit their ideas to, Christopher?
0:09:04.0 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, so please submit your ideas for future interviews or topics that you would love to hear from us on at... Sorry, submit to news, N-E-W-S, @sigmanu.org, so you don't want to get it confused with Sigma Nu, N-U-S, but news, N-E-W-S, @sigmanu.org, and that'll go to Adam and I.
0:09:28.3 Adam Girtz: You'll be stepping on the toes of every alumni newsletter from every chapter that thinks they're the first one to come up with that idea.
0:09:35.2 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, well, no, it was really funny when I was thinking of like, "Oh, where would be the best place for them to send that?" I was like, "Oh, news@sigmanu.org, it's the shortest and it'll be the easiest, and then as it was coming out of my mouth, I was like, "Oh, here's a potential obstacle," so clarify that really quickly.
0:09:48.5 Adam Girtz: N-E-W-S@sigmanu.org.
0:09:54.0 Christopher Brenton: Yes.
0:09:54.2 Adam Girtz: So, another note as well, so we are working on... Because we are a fledgling podcast and our hosts are, I guess, novice podcast hosts, as we've gone through this journey of starting a podcast, we've learned a lot about just the technical side of episode notes and posting and sending out actual episodes, and we've been able to develop some new... Just backend technical things as well, we're using different platforms to record all of that. So, hopefully what that has resulted in is an increase in the quality of the audio of the episodes as well as streamlining how the episode sounds and how it arrives to your podcast feeds, however that might be.
0:10:53.2 Adam Girtz: So, one thing with that, we are working on updating past episodes with more comprehensive show notes as well as transcriptions, which is a really neat feature that we're working on, rolling out for all of the past episodes as well as implementing in future episodes. So, to that end, if there was an episode that you particularly enjoyed and there was maybe a resource or a link that that was mentioned in the episode that we might have said, "Hey, we'll share this with you," or that was just mentioned and not really brought up again, and you wanted access to that, let us know, again, just news@sigmanu.org, and we can add, make sure to add that to the episode notes for that episode. Like I said, too, we are working on putting transcriptions in as well, which is going to be a very exciting thing to just expand the accessibility of our podcast to even more people.
0:11:57.0 Christopher Brenton: Absolutely.
0:12:00.3 Adam Girtz: So, I think that's it, I think that's all of the housekeeping, it's not housekeeping, it's just general things that we want to talk about before we get into the interview.
0:12:09.9 Christopher Brenton: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I think without further ado, we can move into our interview, how about that?
0:12:17.9 Adam Girtz: Let's. See you on the back end, guys.
[Transition Music]
0:12:42.5 Christopher Brenton: Alright, welcome back everyone. I'm so excited to be able to bring to you two guests that we have today. We've already done a little bit of a brief introduction kind of in the show intro, but now that we have our two guests, we want to give them the opportunity to introduce themselves to you. So, I'm going to actually queue Mr. Huffman up first just so that he can do a quick introduction, and then we'll move on to Robert, and then kind of go on from there. So, Mr. Huffman, if you wouldn't mind, if you could give the listeners just a quick introduction of who you are, your Greek affiliation, so in this case, your Sigma Nu affiliation, and then also the volunteer role that you have with the organization, that would be great.
0:13:27.6 Mr. Huffman: Sure, thanks, Chris. I'm Robert Huffman, Sigma Nu, Alpha Iota class here at Eta Rho, Western Kentucky University, I go by HP-374. We're well over a 1000 now, so when I say that number, everybody kind of looks, "Oh whoa, you're pretty old," and so... But yeah, I joined in 1980, and just recently, I guess I've been a volunteer, a chapter advisor that is going on our second year. I enjoy that aspect of volunteering with the chapter and just helping the young men out understanding where they're going and what they're trying to do.
0:14:10.2 Christopher Brenton: And Robert?
0:14:10.3 Robert Huffman: Yeah, thanks so much, Chris. So, my name is Robert Huffman. And I went to Florida Atlantic University, and we didn't have a chapter of Sigma Nu so I decided to start our chapter of Delta Tau Delta, in which I was accounting father back in 2009. So, I started that chapter up and got them running, and I still keep in touch with them today.
0:14:35.1 Christopher Brenton: That's awesome. And for those who are listening, just kind of an inside story, so Robert and I actually have a mutual friend, Kyle Riegler, who I believe was a Sigma Alpha Mu at FAU, and so it was kind of a cool coincidence that later in our careers, we would meet each other, and then kind of have that shared friend through the larger fraternity industry. But even though that Robert didn't have the chance to join Sigma Nu at FAU, we still were able to wrangle him into the organization and used him as an advisor for our Iota Rho Colony, which is at College of Charleston, so we're keeping it in the family still.
0:15:21.5 Robert Huffman: Yeah.
0:15:22.4 Christopher Brenton: Well, great. Well, thank you guys for introducing yourselves. So, as the listeners now know, the theme for this episode of the podcast is Men's Health Awareness Month, and so we're going to be tying this podcast into the larger conversation that we're hoping to share with our brothers about men's health, why that's important, why this conversation is important, and we're excited to have the two of you on to talk about that. But before we do, something that we always like to use as a part of this conversation, or all of our podcast episodes is just kind of a quick Sigma Nu story. And for Robert, for you as well, for Delta Tau Delta, just kind of think of a fraternity story, and just wanted the two of you to reflect on your Sigma Nu experience, what was meaningful about that when you chose to join your organization? And what you think about fraternity and or the importance of fraternity today. So, Mr. Huffman, again, if you would like to kick us off. Reflecting back on when you chose to join the Eta Rho Chapter, what was that experience like? And why did you ultimately choose to join your chapter?
0:16:29.8 Mr. Huffman: Back in 1980s, it was a lot different than it is today, but I can still remember meeting the gentleman that I consider rushed me to Sigma Nu, see him at least once or twice a month here in town, it's just exciting to be able to think back as to why I joined Sigma Nu and Eta Rho Chapter, and what they stood for, leadership, honor, trust, all of those things that are true and meaningful to a young man as he's trying to find his way in college. I had some friends that were in fraternities, sororities, and they encouraged me as well to join Sigma Nu and become one of the brothers. And back then, Sigma Nu was very strong in athletics, probably coming off winning the football intramural competition on campus, so that was pretty exciting. And then, the leadership, I'm in touch with the Commander that was in place back then, he and I are working as advisors for our chapter today, and he's helped me build a chapter advisory group.
0:17:40.3 Mr. Huffman: We traditionally just had one chapter advisor, whereas this semester we've encouraged seven or eight and nine other alumni to join our group of advisors and really helping us grow the chapter and leadership and things like that, which is what I feel like if you're going to join an organization, you got to get something out of it. Alright? So, just like Robert, when he decided that he wanted to join a fraternity in Delta Tau Delta, we talked about leadership and what that meant, and be a part of the leadership piece of a fraternity, and don't just join it and belong, but lead and show your leadership skills and learn from that. And Robert's sister, she was in a sorority and had leadership roles and talked to those guys, and as I do, these guys are here on Western's campus, you're running a small business. So, we think about all the responsibility and how you can and help others be members of an organization and grow it and be plentiful. So, those are the things that I got out of it back in the early '80s and those are the things I get out of it now, so it's just to grow young men in leadership roles.
0:19:00.0 Christopher Brenton: Robert, please tell us about your fraternity experience as well.
0:19:03.4 Robert Huffman: Yeah, absolutely. So, it's not too dissimilar from my dad's. And so, growing up as a kid, I always saw Sigma Nu stuff in my dad's office and most of the friends of his that I met were his fraternity brothers, and so growing up, I always knew that I wanted to be in a fraternity, mostly because of that brotherhood, and that lifelong brotherhood and centered friendship, as well as the opportunities that are presented to him in that leadership aspect. I graduated from college, and I knew that the most important thing to me going to college was to a good job and to finish college with a good network of friends and colleagues. And so, going into college, like I said, there was no Sigma Nu Chapter, and I remember reaching out to our Greek advisor, Ryan O’Rourke, and basically begging to bring on Sigma Nu, but it turns out there was like a four-to-five-year plan for bringing in chapters. And so, I ended up being a founding father for the Delta Tau Delta Chapter there, and really learned everything about running a small business and what it means to truly be a part of a brotherhood that you are responsible for everybody right by your side.
0:20:18.1 Robert Huffman: And you're also responsible for leaving a legacy. And that's one of the things I always admired about my dad, is he used to take me into the Sigma Nu house at Western, and he would just tell the guys old stories, and he left a legacy there, and he built a tradition that still exists today, which I think is just amazing to see that that can continue on going forward, and that the power that an 18-year-old has to bring that to a college campus, and the responsibility that an 18-year-old has to lead a group of men to team some of the importance of being good friends to each other, life-long friends, where you end up going to their wedding in the future, or even down the road when they have kids, being a godfather to them, and so all those things really just are what encouraged me to get involved in the fraternity life, and I'm still involved to this day, getting involved in different chapters and talking about men's health, and so it's funny how it comes to full circle.
0:21:19.9 Adam Girtz: Yeah. And speaking of, I'd love to hear about your experience in the Movember Organization, Movember Foundation, but for those who might not have heard of it before, could you just briefly explain what Movember’s objective is and what their purpose is?
0:21:42.1 Robert Huffman: Yeah, absolutely. So, for starters, I will say that Sigma Nu has been the leading fraternity over the past few years in terms of involvement for Movember. And what Movember is, it's basically a mustache movement, so trying to get more men to grow mustaches during the month of November to raise awareness and funds for men's health issues. And so, Movember focuses on prostate cancer, testicular cancer, and mental health, and suicide prevention, which are the three main areas of men and men's health, everywhere from 18-year-olds up to 60-year-olds. And so, the goal is to really encourage guys to have fun with it by growing a mustache for 30 days, and really spark that camaraderie and that brotherhood piece by growing a mustache together all in the name of men's health. And over the past 16 years, through all the mustaches grown, Movember has raised over a billion dollars to become the world's largest men's health charity, and that's all thanks to fraternities just like Sigma Nu who are just having fun and doing good.
0:22:48.8 Adam Girtz: That really strikes me as a unique way to bring awareness to a movement, to an organization, because it's a conversation starter that you wear literally on your face all the time during that period, and something that draws attention to you, and then from there, you can kind of dive into why you're doing that or why you made that choice, I always thought that was very interesting. So, tell me about your experience with your organization.
0:23:25.0 Robert Huffman: Yeah, go ahead, Adam.
0:23:27.9 Adam Girtz: Like, your involvement with Movember and just what it brought to you in your career.
0:23:34.1 Robert Huffman: Yeah, absolutely. So, I got involved in Movember back in college, back in my fraternity days actually, so we were looking for a reason to have fun, to do good, we knew that we had to raise money for our fraternity, and we figured if we could grow a mustache while raising money, what college could... Wouldn't want to do that? And so, we started just by doing that, we raised a couple of grand the first year, and eventually raised 20 grand after a few years of getting it going. And then, I kind of transitioned out of Movember and just did it on a volunteer basis, got a job in finance, was there for five years, and then my heart pulling back into it, essentially. I was looking for a different career path and got back into Movember, they were looking for somebody to lead their development side, and so I had the opportunity to work with colleges and fraternities to encourage more college men to grow a mustache essentially for three years.
0:24:28.8 Robert Huffman: And so, I did that, which was a blast, I went around to a bunch of college campuses, went to the Sigma Nu house over at Oregon, and UCLA, and talked to those guys, and had a lot of fun, just encouraging guys to grow mustaches and really shine a light on men's health. A lot of times, especially in a fraternity, a lot of guys just are afraid to talk about these serious issues, and that's the goal, right? Is to break down those barriers, break down the awkwardness of, "Hey guys, we're growing mustaches," the least that we can do is talk about mental health or talk about how to check your nuts, some of the most guys will laugh at, but most guys don't even know how to check their nuts. So, doing stuff like that was a blast, but it also had some really important meaning to it, actually encouraging guys to get more involved in their own health.
0:25:19.0 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. Robert, I actually want to expand on that a little bit. So, real quick, just to set the stage for listeners who have now heard us talk about Movember, are slowly starting to become more familiar with that organization, I will say, Sigma Nu, we don't have any sort of national partnership with any particular philanthropic organization, we've always been really focused on empowering our chapters to identify local causes that they're passionate about, and it should not be a surprise then that I think a lot of chapters, because of the topic of men's health, would gravitate to an organization like Movember, but what has been surprising is the intensity by which they have gotten involved.
0:26:08.6 Christopher Brenton: So, it's been really exciting to see so many of our chapters who have adopted Movember as their local organization of choice, who have participated in the mustache growing campaign during the month of November, and certainly have even got involved in some of Movember's other campaigns to raise awareness for mental health and suicide prevention, which is really exciting to see also. But do want to expand a little bit on the idea or the topics that you were starting to allude to there at the end about mental health. Obviously, you mentioned that Movember is focused on prostate cancer awareness, testicular cancer awareness, suicide, and mental health is kind of a third kind of collective focus.
0:26:57.5 Christopher Brenton: I'm curious, when you were working for the organization, were there any surprising facts about those particular areas of men's health that you found surprising or you were like, "Gosh, I wish men knew about this stuff, because this is such important information," and maybe you didn't feel like this is something you had heard until you started working for the organization?
0:27:25.8 Robert Huffman: Yeah. So, I can speak to all three of them, and we'll start off with the prostate cancer. So, one in nine men will be diagnosed with prostate cancer throughout their life, and this typically starts around the age of 50 years old, unless you're of African American descent, or it runs in your family, then the age to get checked is 45 years old. So, one in nine men, that's actually almost equivalent to breast cancer, which is one in eight women who get diagnosed with breast cancer. Yeah, most people don't even know what a prostate is, nor do they know that they should go get checked or at least have a conversation with their doctor about prostate cancer.
0:28:00.6 Robert Huffman: And so, understanding that and having conversations with my dad about prostate cancer were really eye-opening for me as a man, and let alone as an employee of the Movember Foundation. I really learned a lot about prostate cancer and the importance of having a real conversation with your doctor. And then, the next one is testicular cancer, which is the most common cancer of young men under the age of 30, and that was surprising to me because I always knew that I was supposed to check my testicles for lumps or swelling, but I didn't really know why, or that it was such a common cancer.
0:28:40.5 Robert Huffman: And unfortunately, I actually just lost a fraternity brother to testicular cancer just last month, and he got diagnosed last year on World Cancer Day. And so, I remember he did Movember with his back in the day, and he called me last year after he checked his testicle and felt something irregular, and he was heading straight to the doctor, because these things can pop up really quick and they are very serious, and while they're 95% curable, there is a 5% that cannot make it that it spreads too quick, and so it's important that guys under the age of 35 years old check their testicles on a regular basis.
0:29:18.0 Robert Huffman: And then, as it relates to suicide and mental health, so my grandfather took his life at a young age of 37 years old, and so I kind of... Once I found that out, I grew up the importance of having conversations about mental health. And as it relates to the severity of it, three out of four suicides are actually by men, and so it's important that we as men take ownership of that and that we do something about it, and then that we start having conversations with our fellow friends and our family members that might be struggling. To make sure that we check in with everybody and that we actually ask, "How the hell are you doing?" Get deep, and it's okay to ask tough questions, because if you don't, nobody else will. And so, within those three categories of men's health, I learned a lot, but especially it's really hard to actually bring those things home and have these conversations with your friends and family because they are awkward, but once you get that ball rolling, it's easier and easier, and people are always thankful that you actually started that conversation.
0:30:22.2 Christopher Brenton: Yeah.
0:30:22.3 Adam Girtz: So, Robert, a couple of follow-up questions there, and we'll start with, I guess, the physical health side of it first. Just for our listeners, what is one or a couple of resources that you'd recommend as far as self-exams or resources for having a conversation with your doctor? Where would you recommend guys go to get more information about that?
0:30:47.5 Robert Huffman: Yeah. So, for all those three topics that I covered, you can go to movember.com, and within the Men's Health tab at the top, it'll dive through each of those three categories and talk about prostate cancer and how you can have a conversation with your doctor, and there's also resources for you as well. And especially with mental health and suicide prevention, Movember has been building more resources, more digital and interactive resources, well, especially for younger men to help them have these conversations. That's one of the last projects that I worked on when I was working at Movember, is creating a tool that guys can go in and learn how to have a difficult conversation with your roommate or with your brother or with your father about mental health. And so, I would encourage everybody to go to movember.com and just check it out and just go through the resources because it's really eye-opening if you haven't really learned about men's health issues.
0:31:38.7 Adam Girtz: Awesome. We'll definitely be sure to include that link in our episode notes for the episode when we put it out. So, the second area of follow-up questions, and this is something I'd love to have a deeper conversation about, is about mental health itself, I think we've talked about this topic before on the podcast actually with Ross Szabo in an earlier episode, he worked with us to create our behind happy faces curriculum that we've put out for our chapters, and that's actually a curriculum that we've found has had a really amazing response from our chapters, has started conversations about mental health, has even helped encourage some chapters to take action in creating a mental health chairman or an officer position specifically related to checking on supporting the mental health of the members, which is awesome, it's really cool to see some of our chapters doing that. But short of that, what are some things that we can do to... You as a chapter member or as an officer in a chapter, too, you start having those conversations with your brothers, like I said, with your brothers, with your close friends, with your family.
0:32:55.5 Robert Huffman: Yeah. So, I'm sure my dad has some stuff to add to this, too, as being an advisor, but one of the biggest things that I would suggest is not only does it have to come from internal, from the organization, from the down up, but especially from the top down, so it's up to leadership to really implement time in the agenda to actually encourage guys to have a conversation, so whether that would just be five minutes to the start of every chapter meeting, "Hey guys, look to the person to your right, ask them how they're doing," they're going to sit here for five minutes in awkward silence until we actually have a conversation. It's up to leadership to really encourage that culture for guys to open up and break down these barriers and not just talk about sports and the weather, but actually dive deep into why they took this oath and why they're actually following this tradition and this ritual, because that's why fraternities got started, it's actually to dig deeper into life and to dig deeper into relationships.
0:33:51.9 Robert Huffman: I would encourage everybody, every chapter to actually implement a role or a position that's focused on men's health, and especially if somebody sees something that's going on with another brother, whether it be physical or mental health, that they have a person to go to and say, "Hey, you know what, Bobby is actually not doing very well, I think that you should look into it," or have a conversation with them, and then they can actually lead them to the counselor or actually professional services, but there needs to be a point person, a point of contact for the people to go to learn more or to just have a conversation with.
0:34:26.5 Adam Girtz: Yeah, absolutely.
0:34:26.6 Mr. Huffman: And I would agree with all of that. And I know, Robert, I've always had conversations, and we were really close as he grew up, and I think more and more as he got into Movember, we probably started having deeper conversations, and I learned a lot from him as to what I should be doing as a parent, as a colleague, as a leader within our organization, and also now as an advisor of the chapter. And as he said, you just have to pay attention, you know what, have your brothers, have your friends, have... Have they changed something in their activities? Are they sleeping too much? Are they distancing themselves from their friends? Are they consuming too much of something that they shouldn't be? Or are they just alienating themselves? And if you see something different like that, you have to say something. And I think that's even a slogan, if you see something, say something. Here on Western’s campus, the university has all kinds of resources for our students, as I'm sure every university does, but it's important that our students know that, and they feel comfortable using those resources that just tends to fraternity. We've got all kinds of resources to help our chapter members. But the number one thing is, is you just have to have those conversations.
0:35:48.4 Mr. Huffman: Like Robert said, when I see him on campus, or if we go to the chapter meeting from him in the house, just ask, "How are you doing? No, really, how are you doing? You know what, I'm here asking because I care. If I didn't care, then I wouldn't say anything." And I try to ask them about their class work and the things that really mean something, but just having a few minutes of just saying, "How are you doing? Tell me," and you can tell. And if they even shrug their shoulders or... Then it's, "Hey, let's go out on the front porch, we're going to have a little conversation." And as chapter advisors, again, I don't tell them what to do, I just advise them. And it's the same thing that these guys need for any mental health or men's health issues, it's just advice, "Hey, go see your doctor. Hey, go talk to your mom, talk to your dad. Get somebody to listen to you so that they can hear what's going on with you, and then ask for help." And like I said, there's just all kinds of resources out there for us and for our chapter members.
0:36:57.7 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. Mr. Huffman, I think that's excellent advice. And I'm curious to kind of keep it on you for a second. We get to see the excitement around organizations like Movember who are inspiring young men to have these conversations. I'm curious, do you feel like from, in your perspective, do you feel like, from when you were in the chapter, is this a conversation that was taking place when you were there, or do you feel like this is kind of a new conversation that is excitingly happening? I'm just curious to kind of know about this.
0:37:38.8 Mr. Huffman: Yeah, this is new, we probably had some conversations, especially if a situation arose, you might have it, but then it blows over. But now, it's important that we have these conversations and that we just keep asking, keep noticing if something's going on and we encourage them to see more, but yeah, it's more so now, which is, I think, enlightening. And even with the conversations that Robert and I have about his friends and my colleagues, just to be able to say, "Hey, well, what did you do about it?" His friend that passed away, we spoke about that and just encouraging him to open up. And then, it's just important and it's hard for me, and it's... I don't know why, I can't say it's very hard for me, I know my wife would definitely [chuckle] agree with that statement. But the more people that we talk to about things, the easier it gets. And that's what we have to teach our young men and our young ladies as well, that it's important to ask the questions and then listen, that's so powerful to be able to just listen to someone, because we always just want to give our opinion or our advice, but a lot of times just listening will mean so much to that individual.
0:39:09.0 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. Knowing that this is perhaps a new conversation that especially older alumni may not have had when they were undergraduate members of their chapter, thinking about the experience Robert shared with being open and having conversations with you, do you have advice for how a father or a son, could have this conversation with each other, especially about testicular cancer or prostate cancer, some of those conversations that have the potential to be awkward, but can be life-saving? Do you have any tips or maybe experiences from the way that you and Robert were able to kind of engage in that conversation?
0:39:53.8 Mr. Huffman: Yeah, and Robert might be able to add some as well, but it's... And it's tough, but... We watch a lot of sports, he's excited about his Braves, they're in the World Series, so you're talking about something, or you're having a drink or a cup of coffee, and you just you got to broach the subject, and if it's not the right time, well, then you just kind of clam up and move on, but you don't give up, and you just continue to try to press on and have that tough conversation. And then, in leadership, we have tough conversations with our folks all the time, and the more you do it, the easier it is, but if you have a tendency of clamming up and not wanting to talk about the tough things in life, it will continue to be tough and you won't talk about it, and the sooner, the better, in the earlier age is just like creating habits, the sooner you get positive habits of doing things, it just... It's easier. And I think, especially if you create those before you're, I'm just going to say 18, 19, or 20, college age, things are easier once you graduate.
0:41:07.0 Robert Huffman: Yeah. I'd love to add to that. And it's different depending on who you're talking to. I know for me and my buddies, post college, it can be difficult to stay in touch with some of your best friends, which at Movember, we learned a lot that men that graduate college and go on and get married, they tend to not have a whole lot of close male friendships, which is just a natural thing that happens, but trying to set aside time, I know me and my buddy, we have a call every week every Wednesday morning at 7:00 AM, and we just chat for 30 minutes, and we have that dedicated time to chat about things, which really allowed us to open the door on some conversations, because it's always hard to pick up the phone and just call somebody and say, "Hey, I'm really struggling," but if you have a dedicated time set aside to talk about whatever, it helps continue those conversations knowing that there is a chance to follow up, it's not just one phone call, and then you hope that somebody just reaches back out.
0:42:08.3 Robert Huffman: Some other little small tips that we learned is sitting side by side, shoulder to shoulder with guys, guys tend to open up more shoulder to shoulder than face-to-face, so whether it be on a long road trip or at a bar, or sitting there playing video games, when somebody is comfortable in their own setting, watching a sports game, that's a good time to ask a deep question, because they're comfortable with everything else and they can actually open up about something that might be awkward or unfamiliar. But as my dad said, you just got to keep doing it, and it's probably more uncomfortable for you than it is for the other person. And especially if you think something's going on, most people are begging for you to ask, because they won't just openly say, "Hey, you know what, I'm struggling, I'm going through a tough time." So, it's important to just continue to ask and just dig in, even if they say everything is fine, give them a follow-up question, don't accept that as an answer, so keep digging in and keep asking.
0:43:16.4 Adam Girtz: Yeah, it sounds like really bottom line here is that you... In order to have these conversations, whether it's with family, friends, fraternity brothers, you need to create the opportunity for that conversation to happen and you need to create the environment where the person you're talking to feels safe, being vulnerable in that situation, and I think that's one of the strengths of the modern fraternity experience, and is that it is a place where young men can feel that they can let their guard down and be a little bit more vulnerable with those guys that they love and that love them. And hopefully now, as we continue to move forward with this, we can then bring in the resources, the knowledge, the awareness of the actual issues to be able to take that safe place and have productive conversations like this in those places.
0:44:14.1 Mr. Huffman: Yeah, and I agree, having that safe place, but that's where Movember comes in. I know Robert can... He will laugh because I've tried to be a Mo-bro, but my mustaches are not good.
0:44:29.3 Mr. Huffman: But the few years that I've tried to grow one, it spurred on some conversations that were just spontaneous of the moment, and really were enlightening to both me and the individuals that I was talking to, because they didn't understand about why you would grow a mustache, why you didn't even want to have the conversation, but wow, it made some differences. And I've got a friend, actually he's a pledge brother of mine, he lives about two and a half hours away, and we talk a couple of times a month, and it's... usually we’ll end up talking to some kind of health issues. So, just trying to mentor back and forth and understand what's going on in everybody's lives. So, that's the good piece about Movember, is that it's kind of... You don't have to wait for that safe space, it just... It gets the conversation out there.
0:45:18.2 Robert Huffman: Yeah…
0:45:19.9 Adam Girtz: Well... No, go ahead.
0:45:21.7 Robert Huffman: Yeah, I'll add to that, just because my dad grew a mustache, it actually looked amazing, but I will say that the worst mustache started the best conversation, so even if you think you can't grow a good mustache, that's actually the point, is to spark a conversation and get a few laughs. And these health conversations don't have to be all doom and gloom either, it's okay to bring some humor to it, and Movember does that through asking guys to check their nuts and to “know thy nuts,” and so it's important to bring your own personality to these conversations, you don't have to be a therapist or a professional counselor to have a conversation with your best friend, and so you can make it light-hearted and still make it a productive conversation. But I know that my dad and I have... We've grown so much over the years by just being able to have open conversations about what's going on in life, whether it be our feelings or health issues, physical or mental, but all that kind of stuff, it just plays a big role in building a relationship with your friends and family.
0:46:24.3 Adam Girtz: Awesome. Well, thank you, guys. Mr. Huffman and Robert, any closing thoughts, anything else you'd like to share with us before we wrap up here?
0:46:34.2 Mr. Huffman: No, I think we've touched on all of it. We just got to talk to our friends, our colleagues, anybody that we come in contact, and just let them know that we want to listen, and we want to help, we're there for them.
0:46:47.3 Adam Girtz: Awesome. Well, both of you, thank you so much for being here. This conversation, you hopefully can spark a hundred more at our chapters, that's the ideal, so yeah.
0:47:04.7 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, absolutely.
0:47:04.8 Adam Girtz: Christopher, any final thoughts?
0:47:05.2 Christopher Brenton: No, this has been awesome. I'm really excited to be able to share this with our chapters and with our listeners, so I really appreciate the two of you joining us today.
0:47:15.0 Adam Girtz: Thank you, guys, so much.
0:47:15.8 Robert Huffman: Alright.
0:47:17.0 Christopher Brenton: Alright, take care, guys. Bye.
0:47:17.6 Robert Huffman: Bye-bye. No, you bet.
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0:47:43.7 Christopher Brenton: Welcome back. Adam, what do you think of that conversation?
0:47:50.0 Adam Girtz: I loved it. Like we talked about up top, I've thought... I always think this topic is infinitely important, I think it's something that if we can add to the conversation, if we can inspire people to talk to their friends, talk to their brothers, talk to their fathers, sons, about mental health as well as men's bodily health, physical health as well, I think that's something that would be good for us to get out in the world, and I'm glad we're able to have that conversation.
0:48:25.8 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, absolutely. I think when we think of ourselves as a men's organization, in keeping with that theme is this idea that there are things that have a particular impact on us as men. And certainly, thinking about prostate cancer and testicular cancer in particular, I just don't feel like it's a conversation that, prior to a few years ago, that I hadn't really ever heard about. I don't feel like this is a conversation that is very popular in media or in popular conversation, and so I'm particularly really thankful for organizations like Movember, and certainly there are others that are leading the way on this.
0:49:16.2 Christopher Brenton: But just that we're drawing attention to it, and that we have a month like Men's Health Awareness Month in November to have this conversation, and certainly there is one that needs to happen year-round, but I think about men that I know that are really important to me, men that I'm very close with, and I know someone who has been diagnosed with testicular cancer and went through that process of discovering a lump in, and luckily it was treatable and it didn't have any significant consequences outside of the treatment and the procedure and everything that went along with that.
0:50:04.5 Christopher Brenton: But to hear Robert share about the friend of his that was lost to testicle cancer, it raises the importance of us having these conversations with our loved ones, with friends, us doing our own self-checks, if we are identifying something that feels or that seems not normal, that we're having conversations with doctors and individuals who can give us additional advice or additional information, that we're doing regular screenings for just our health in general, I think that's so important, and so I'm really excited and proud that we are having this conversation here and that so many of our brothers, I don't...
0:50:50.4 Christopher Brenton: Adam, I don't know if you have seen this, but it seems like this year in particular, especially with the Movember Foundation in particular, but you also have like Septembeard is another popular one in the month of September, but it seems like so many of our chapters are really excited and enthusiastic about raising funds for this cause, raising awareness for these conversations. And so, I think this is perfectly timed and it really is tapping into, I think, an exciting conversation about men's health and why it's important, and that our brothers are hopefully using this information and staying healthy.
0:51:24.5 Adam Girtz: Yeah, absolutely. I think every young man loves an excuse to grow some facial hair, particularly if he's... Would normally not really be able to or might be ashamed of his facial hair, I'm not telling on myself, [laughter] no. I think that's definitely a component of it, but it's also like once you learn like, oh, you are doing this to start a conversation and to introduce a topic into a place where I normally wouldn't be, it becomes kind of an even easier thing to do, right? And one thing I was going to say is, this topic, I think, and the Movember or Septembeard or any of these other organizations with the goal being, "Hey, let's just introduce this as a topic." And one thing I really enjoyed during the interview was Robert had a couple of... They're slipping my mind right now, but a couple of just different little quips of phrases like, "You get yourself, know thyself, or know... " What was it? Know thy nuts, right?
0:52:46.7 Christopher Brenton: That's right, yeah.
0:52:48.1 Adam Girtz: It's stuff like that where you kind of chuckle at first, but then it's like, "Okay, so what just happened here was we are normalizing and becoming comfortable with that concept of de-stigmatizing self-checks and making that conversation something that people are comfortable having," and I think that's huge.
0:53:11.9 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, absolutely. And even, too, I think it was really great that we had Mr. Huffman and Robert on to showcase, I think, what is a healthy conversation between a father and son, between a younger member and an alumnus, between friends, just the act of having the conversation is so important. But we also unfortunately, still need role models to model that way, because sometimes this behavior, it feels awkward, or it's just not normalized as often. And so, I'm really thankful for Robert and for Mr. Huffman to kind of talk about their experience and showcasing that and being vulnerable with our listeners. And so, if they're listening, I just want to say thank you once again for being a part of this.
0:54:11.8 Adam Girtz: Definitely. If I could underline one thing one more time, and that is, "Talk to your brothers, just... " This is something that's so important, and I really love having worked with our chapters in the last couple of years, seeing this upswing in guys finding solace and looking for support amongst their chapters and finding that, and truly being able to say that these guys that I've chosen to surround myself with love me and care about me, and I love them and I care about them, and knowing that... For a young man to know that he has that support system, whether or not that's in addition to an outside support system more than his family and friends outside of the chapter, or if that's his only main support system, knowing that that's there is just such a huge thing. And then, to introduce into that, "Hey, let's layer on top of that real trusted resources of men's health," right? We reference going to Movember and their health resource area, we'll link that in the show notes, but also just... I think the most important thing, talking to your doctor and really finding the trusted resources on all of this. I'm a big proponent of not getting your medical advice from podcasts or from people who don't... That aren't, I don't know, physicians. [chuckle] So, go seek that out. But just us normalizing having that and leaning on your support system in that way is so huge.
0:55:54.3 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. Adam and I are not the experts, but we're happy to be having the conversation. But to the point you just made, and this connects back to the beginning of this episode, which is we are trying to do our part to expand the show notes to make them more accessible, so everything that you heard referenced throughout this episode, you can find that here in the show notes for this episode, and then also you can follow along with the transcript from the episode as well, so we're excited to make sure that those resources are accessible for you.
0:56:26.4 Adam Girtz: Awesome. And one last reminder, submit recommendations for Season Three to news@sigmanu.org.
0:56:32.7 Christopher Brenton: Absolutely. And we're looking forward to putting that together for you, it'll be here before we know it.
0:56:37.5 Adam Girtz: Alright. Where can we be found on the social media, Christopher?
0:56:43.5 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. So, as I mentioned, you can always find more information on the Fraternity at sigmanu.org, that's our website, but then also you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Hopefully, I don't know if we're... TikTok is in-store, but maybe at some point, but at least...
0:56:58.6 Adam Girtz: Are we starting a TikTok?
0:57:00.2 Christopher Brenton: I think we have an account, but I haven't quite figured out exactly what we could or should do with that, so we'll kind of leave that alone for the moment, but for...
0:57:11.1 Adam Girtz: Check out me and Christopher doing The Island Boys rap on TikTok.
0:57:15.6 Christopher Brenton: Or don't, because it's not there.
[chuckle]
0:57:21.7 Christopher Brenton: But as I was mentioning, so Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram is @sigmanuhq, and then getting on Facebook you can find us at Sigma Nu Fraternity.
0:57:29.9 Adam Girtz: Awesome. Christopher, I'll see you next month.
0:57:32.4 Christopher Brenton: Adam, take care.
0:57:34.7 Adam Girtz: [chuckle] Bye.
[Outro Music]