In this episode, Adam and Christopher interview Ryan Hartwig (Southeast Missouri State), Director of Educational Technology for Delta Zeta Sorority, about his guest article “Life of Love.” The article was written for the Fraternity and featured during the 2022 National Hazing Prevention Week. During the episode, Adam, Christopher, and Ryan talk about Ryan’s Sigma Nu Story and career journey to working for Delta Zeta. The team also discusses the Fraternity’s principle of Love and its application and importance to our brotherhood.
The Gavel Podcast is the official podcast of Sigma Nu Fraternity, Inc. and is dedicated to keeping you updated on the operations of the Legion of Honor and connecting you to stories from our brotherhood.
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The Gavel Podcast - Ep 28 - The Life of Love with Ryan Hartwig (Southeast Missouri State)
[Intro Music]
0:00:42.3 Adam Girtz: Hello and welcome to the latest episode of The Gavel Podcast. I'm Adam.
0:00:46.2 Christopher Brenton: And I'm Christopher.
0:00:47.3 Adam Girtz: The Gavel Podcast is the official podcast of Sigma Nu Fraternity and is a show dedicated to keeping you updated on the operations of the Legion of Honor and connecting you to the stories from our brotherhood.
0:00:56.7 Christopher Brenton: To find out more from the Fraternity, you can always check out our website at sigmanu.org, you can also find us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter @sigmanuhq or by searching for Sigma Nu Fraternity.
0:01:07.5 Adam Girtz: Awesome. Christopher, hello. And listeners, welcome.
0:01:09.8 Christopher Brenton: Hello. Hello, hello.
0:01:11.1 Adam Girtz: Welcome to another episode of The Gavel Podcast. What a year it's been so far. Really, really neat stuff. You're getting that three-part special series on the Collegiate Chapters. We got a couple of extra episodes that have come out and are planned. That's... It's very exciting. I think we've had a busy start to 2023 for us, so very cool.
0:01:38.5 Christopher Brenton: People will likely be pretty confused because we started off the year with, this will be our fifth episode, only the second month in.
0:01:48.6 Adam Girtz: In a month, yeah. [chuckle]
0:01:50.6 Christopher Brenton: But don't want to... For regular listeners, don't want to convince you of a new schedule or a new trend of episode releases, we'll be slowing down from here on out, returning back to the episode per month structure. But those two initial or those two initial releases, the series and then also the bonus episode, consultant interview were special in and of themselves, so we'll be slowing down our release plan from here on out.
0:02:30.3 Adam Girtz: Yeah, we've been spoiling you guys. All of our listeners with our wonderful extra content.
0:02:33.5 Christopher Brenton: Exactly.
0:02:36.1 Adam Girtz: But that being said, I mentioned it in the episode with the interviews with the commanders, but that episode got me excited to do some more of that field recording and add events and things like that and try to deliver more of that. So expect more of that in the future. It's something I'm definitely going to try to record more of. And Christopher, I will drag along with me if he protests, but my conversations with Christopher so far have been very positive on those.
0:03:09.7 Adam Girtz: Yeah, anyway. Yeah. Welcome everyone. Today, we are going to be speaking with Ryan Hartwig on the topic of brotherly love. Which I've been excited to do this interview for a while. And now that we've recorded the interview and now doing the rest of the episode here, I'm very happy with the interview and just the topic I feel like is such a neat one. because we talk about mental health and I guess in a way, caring for your brothers or looking after their mental health that way. But really focusing in on what does it mean to have brotherly love for your friends and your brothers like that. What does that mean and how do we show that? Why is that important? All of that we discussed with Ryan and the interview is really neat. But I did want to set up for this interview just where this is coming from and where this interview idea started. My understanding, Christopher, is that there was an article that Sigma Nu had, I guess, worked with Ryan on last year. Could you tell us more about where we met Ryan and why he's writing an article for us, and then how he came to be interviewed.
0:04:38.1 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. Well, I will actually go one step backwards and give a little bit of context. This episode is releasing on Valentine's Day, so on Tuesday, February 14th. Adam and I, as we go through our pre-season plan and try to identify what topics we want to cover, who might we interview, we start with the calendar of like, hey, what major events both within the fraternity as well as external to the fraternity are taking place? What themes are relevant for particular months? Are there big holidays or times of year that are particularly relevant to our audience? And so, we were joking around with like, could we do a Valentine's Day episode? And it hit us it's like, hey, Valentine's Day, love. While in this episode, we're not talking about romantic love, we'll get into that. Love for the organization or love as a principle, one of our three founding principles, love, honor and truth, it's this untouched concept for the organization. We know it's there. But in terms of the general fraternity or the national organization, we really don't spend much time or resources talking about this.
0:06:08.0 Christopher Brenton: I think in some ways, truth as a principal or a value feels very self-explanatory. We know what it means to be truthful or to tell the truth. We spend a lot of time on the honor principle in some ways that is probably are more important or flagship value, flagship principle. But it's also, I think, the most amorphous, it's hard to wrap your hands around. You don't really know what it looks like necessarily. You just... You understand it classically, but not in a modern context perhaps. And so we spend a lot of time at Collegiate Chapters and the Sigma Nu Institute, and we write a lot about honor and how it applies to a fraternal context. But then you have this idea of love and you're like, "What? What am I... I know about romantic love. I know that I love my family. I know that I love my friends. But what does that look like practically?" And so when we are thinking about that earlier in the academic year, around National Hazing Prevention Week, we had reached out to Ryan Hartwig, who is an initiated and an alumnus of our new Kappa Chapter at Southeast Missouri State University.
0:07:29.8 Christopher Brenton: He is currently the Director of Educational Technology for Delta Zeta Sorority, and that it was important context for us because it was an exciting opportunity for us to bring on someone to get to talk about what is it like to work for a sorority, a national sorority? With our perspective as fraternity staff members, for our own organization, we understand in concept or in a theory what that experience might be like. But he's working with a completely different audience. He's working for an organization that is not his own, but yet there is this common ideal of wanting to advance the fraternity and sorority's movement to further the mission or our collective missions of providing a meaningful experience for collegiate members. And so, it was exciting to have that perspective, but of course, he had approached his National Hazing Prevention Week article from the perspective of brotherly love and how that plays out in our hazing prevention efforts. And so, it really felt like it was a great opportunity for us to invite someone on who's been playing around with this idea of what does love look like in practical terms within a fraternity context. And so, I think it results in a really great conversation that I'm excited for everyone to get to hear.
0:09:00.1 Adam Girtz: Yeah, absolutely. And the article in reference here is... We'll be posting our show notes, so you definitely... If you're interested in the context here, go ahead and read that article. Fairly short, just a page and a half or so article, and it really set up that back context behind this. But even if you don't get the chance to read the article, maybe you're driving or something like that, definitely feel free to just listen to the interview first. You don't have to have seen the first movie to understand the second one is what I'm saying. Yeah, let's dive into our interview with Ryan Hartwig and we will catch you guys on the backend.
[Transition Music]
0:10:04.8 Adam Girtz: Hello, everyone. Welcome to our interview. Today, we have a wonderful guest on, Ryan Hartwig. Glad to have you here.
0:10:12.4 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, thanks for having me guys. I'm really excited to be here.
0:10:15.9 Adam Girtz: Yeah, awesome. I'm glad you're here. Christopher, give us a little bit of background on where we pulled this interview together from. I believe Ryan wrote a piece that we were focusing on here.
0:10:33.5 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. A very, very, very loose connection here to February, Valentine's Day, of course is coming up here shortly. And so we were thinking like, "Hey, what could be a cool podcast topic, Valentine's Day, love, fraternal value of love important to Sigma Nu?" Obviously, we're not really talking about romantic love, and that's not the intention there behind the fraternal value. But back in September, during Natural Hazing Prevention Week, we had tapped Ryan to write an article about hazing prevention and his perspective or the angle that he took on the article was about the value of love and how we can do a better job of instilling that particular value within our chapter culture. And so, we thought that would be a really great tie-in, and too, I just think Ryan has a really cool story to tell. You have a very unique story to tell us, we'll get into in just a moment with your career experience. And so, we thought it would be a really cool opportunity to have you on. Ryan currently serves as the Director of Educational Technology for Delta Zeta Sorority. We'll let him talk more about that here in a moment. But Ryan, really excited to have you on.
0:11:53.6 Ryan Hartwig: Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.
0:11:57.1 Adam Girtz: One thing we like to do when we start off our interviews, especially with our Sigma Nu brothers, is to give you the opportunity to tell your Sigma Nu story. So really, I'd love to open it up to you and hear your story, why you chose to join Sigma Nu? Some of your biggest takeaways from the undergrad experience.
0:12:24.1 Ryan Hartwig: Just a little bit of background. I'm originally from St. Louis, Missouri. And I decided to go to Southeast Missouri State University, Mu Kappa. And when I first went to SEMO, it was really, really hard, especially my first semester. I was really getting into understanding who I was as a person. Just different facets of my identity like what I valued in myself and what I valued in relationships and friendships and things like that. And I did not... Academically I did well, but just personally, I did not do well. So I decided to go home for a semester, but right before I went home, I'm like, "No, I'm going to come back here and I'm going to make something on myself and I'm going to join the Greek system." because I had a lot of friends that were in Gamma Phi Beta at the time, and all they had to do was have wonderful things to say about fraternity life and some of the good chapters that were on campus, and one of them that was always there was Sigma Nu.
0:13:31.8 Ryan Hartwig: And I didn't really know anything about it at the time, but I went back to the University of Missouri for St. Louis. Thought I was going to stay there, but then I was like, "No, I really want a solid college experience. A strong Greek system and a sense of community, and prove to this institution that I can make it here. That I can go here." I did a lot of research into Sigma Nu because that's where my Gamma Phi Beta friend said that I would be a good fit. And I didn't know anybody in the fraternity. I did know one gentleman who actually is one of my best friends now, he gave me a ride one day with his girlfriend. His name was Todd and yeah, the things that stood out to me the most, and this is sound kind of stupid is, but where I went to high school, it was the black... Our colors are black and gold, and our mascot was the knights. And so...
0:14:34.1 Adam Girtz: Oh, okay.
0:14:35.1 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, and so I was like, "Oh my gosh. This is meant for me." because I had such a great high school experience, my college experience was not taking off the way that I wanted to. I'm like, "No, this is where I'm meant to be." And when I first started going to recruitment events, it was in the fall of '09, and I had met some really great people. And when it was around time for bid day, right before bid day, I got a call from one of my friends, Todd, who said, you know... He had me go over to his house, he was like, "I'm sorry. We can't give you a bid at this time." There are a couple of guys that didn't necessarily know how to take me and didn't really understand who I was. And so, that was pretty devastating to me. But I talked to my mom about it and she said, "You just need to show them who you are outside of your own personal stories, like what it is that you value, who you are as a person."
0:15:41.5 Ryan Hartwig: And so I decided to stick around and just get to meet everybody. And I met another one of my good friends, Nathan, who was at Canada at the time, who was along with a few other guys were going to ready to advocate for me when it came down to the bid process again. And so, I went through in the spring again, and I was in a... I did my best. I was in a Taco Bell line when I got a text saying, "Congratulations. Don't tell anybody, but you're joining." And...
0:16:17.3 Adam Girtz: Nice.
0:16:18.7 Ryan Hartwig: I mean it took off from there. It reconnected me with the high school buddy of mine that I played volleyball with.
0:16:26.7 Adam Girtz: Oh, cool.
0:16:27.6 Ryan Hartwig: And he was a candidate brother of mine, Mike. And I really got fully invested in this experience because I'm like, "This is going to... This is going to make my college experience what it was always meant to be." And it did. You talk about brotherly love like those three guys that I just named off or I talked highly about them in my wedding vows. I have shared a lot of the best experiences of my life with them personally. And being in Sigma Nu started off my trajectory, not only being invested in the fraternity, but being invested in the fraternity system, in the sorority. I was in a sorority system, I was a IFC President, which was cool.
0:17:21.2 Adam Girtz: Wow. Cool.
0:17:21.4 Ryan Hartwig: And I was a recorder too at the time. I was an intern for the Greek office. And so, I just really went all in. But my favorite position was always T-shirt chair. I was T-shirt chair for three years.
[laughter]
0:17:38.2 Adam Girtz: That's great.
0:17:39.1 Ryan Hartwig: And so, yeah, I made some of my best friends, built a lot of really great relationships with people. And it got me into going into higher education. I think that the thing that I learned from that experience and my story is that, I guess, sometimes people have perceived notions of you and they don't necessarily had to take you. But then once you take the time to actually get to know someone and to build relationships with them and connections with them and develop friendships with them, they truly can become some of the best people in your life. And that is what happened with me because I've never dealt with any type of adversity like that in my entire life. And so, this being such a big challenge for me and actually getting a bid, even getting a bid, it made me fully invested in what it is that I wanted to do. And so that same mindset has kind of stuck with me throughout my life of everything that I put to my mind, to put in 100% even if you think that it's going to be. Even if you end up disappointed. If it's something that you really want, you just gotta go after it, you gotta prove yourself and you gotta take it, and that's what Sigma Nu did for me, so yeah.
0:19:04.1 Christopher Brenton: That is awesome.
0:19:05.5 Adam Girtz: That's really cool, yeah. And I like hearing stories that aren't perfect, you know what I mean? Like, if you'd gotten the bid right away and everything was magical, do you feel like it wouldn't have been... The value of it wouldn't have been the same or did it re-affirm for you that like, "Yes, this is what I wanted to do and what I was meant to do," kind of thing?
0:19:32.7 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, I will say that I do agree that the value of it wouldn't have been the same because I had to care about this organization and what it is that it had to offer. It's values, it's what that it stood for prior to even joining. I had to care and had to be invested and had to get these people on my side to show how important it is to me so that by the time that I did join, I can never let it go. And when I saw people whether it was in my chapter or the other chapters that I work for, take it for granted, it really kind of... It didn't leave a bad taste in my mouth, it was just really disappointing. And obviously as I've grown up and in working for a sorority, I start to understand more of the dynamics about that, but for me personally, it's like I could never give up something as wonderful as this organization and the fraternity brothers that I met. I don't know how anybody else could because other people just got to walk in. And so I think that there is some value to sticking it out and to... I don't know, I guess, really finding something that you're invested in and going forward even if it doesn't work out, so yeah.
0:20:53.8 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, that's awesome.
0:20:54.7 Adam Girtz: That's a... Yeah, really neat story. I like that. I do want to call back to the fact that you already had all these ready-made sweatshirts, T-shirts, gear, ready to go that you could just wear right on into Sigma Nu then, right?
0:21:11.5 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, my mom is a seamstress, so it was a gift to some of my friends. I had her put their initiation number and Sigma Nu on these shirts as a thank you. Even if I don't get a bid, thank you for everything you've done. And so even before recruitment started, the current President at time was like, "Hey, can we get one of those?" I'm like, "Well, are you going to give me a bid? Maybe."
[laughter]
0:21:42.2 Ryan Hartwig: So, yeah, yeah, that was really, really great.
0:21:44.1 Adam Girtz: I've got assets, man. There's things tied to me that if you guys want...
0:21:48.7 Christopher Brenton: This is what I bring to the table.
0:21:49.3 Adam Girtz: Yeah, this is what I'm bringing to the table. I love that. That's very cool.
0:21:52.7 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah.
0:21:52.8 Christopher Brenton: So Ryan, you mentioned this actually in your story, that your undergraduate experience became impactful in appreciating the fraternity and sorority experience in general, which led to, I assume, the career that you have maintained for the past couple of years. So you now work for Delta Zeta Sorority, that is a very unique experience, but not solely unique, we do have at least one other brother, Adnan Vance who is an initiate of our Epsilon Nu chapter at Butler, who works for Kappa Alpha Theta, sorry. But looking at your experience as the Director of Educational Technology, one, how did you get there? What was your journey to getting to Delta Zeta? And then can you talk a little bit more about what you do for Delta Zeta?
0:22:50.7 Ryan Hartwig: Sure. So right after college, I got my Master's at the University of Missouri in Higher Education, Student Affairs and Leadership. I really wanted to be a Greek advisor, I couldn't let it go. I couldn't just go and work at a... I don't know, a different type of job. This was too much for me. And so I didn't directly work in fraternity and sorority life until I got out of grad school. I worked at Stetson University in DeLand, Florida. I think that's the Delta Mu chapter. That's there?
0:23:26.4 Christopher Brenton: They are, they are.
0:23:28.8 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, yeah, I met a lot of really, really great guys there that were the fraternity. So there, I was the IFC and Sorority and NPC and NPHC advisor at the time, and we had... It was about a year into working for Stetson that, one, just like being an IFC President, working with men is very challenging. I don't know how you do it. I am impressed by it, I can't relate to it. And so I really enjoyed the experience I had working with the IFC men that we had on campus, and I really enjoy them as people, but I'm like the conversations that we're having are not where I need them to be. I don't know if I'm the best person, but the sorority women, I really got... I just connected with, I clicked with, and we had an extension opportunity at the time, so we had different sororities coming on to Stetson's campus to learn more about it, which is where I met my boss at the time... What would be my future boss, Mandy Evans, who had worked with Delta Zeta for a long time.
0:24:52.7 Ryan Hartwig: And she was teaching me more about the organization, and I had friends, moms that were Delta Zetas, like Delta Zeta is big in the state of Missouri, but it wasn't at Southeast Missouri State, so I didn't really know too much about them. And she was talking about kind of like what Delta Zeta does, their commitment to philanthropy, specifically in speech and hearing, which is something that really resonated with me because I actually grew up with hearing loss and wearing hearing aids and stuff like that, but also their commitment to community service, how they rolled out on other campuses and it really... I was really, really impressed by everything that they had to offer. And so when it came down to looking at the different extension materials and stuff like that, obviously as a fraternity and sorority life advisor, you don't have a stake in who comes on the campus, it's all the alumni and the students, and so they picked three or other organizations and I was really like, "Oh Gosh, I'm probably going to get in trouble," and I was really bummed out about it because I really enjoyed them.
0:26:03.2 Ryan Hartwig: So I reached out to my former boss, Mandy, and said, "I really love what it is that you had to offer. I wish that I could have connected with you all, but if there's any other opportunities here is some of my previous work experience. If you want to know about these schools, let me know." And Southeast Missouri State came up as a school that Delta Zeta that was looking to extend to so I was able to build that connection. And about around a year into working for Stetson, my dad had passed away and I was all the way in Florida, my family was all the way in Missouri, and I really wanted to work at a headquarters. Working at a campus is not for the faint of heart. I thank all of our fraternity and sorority life professionals that do it, but I just needed to find a way to get home. And so another one of my friends that works at Delta Zeta said, "Hey, do you want to apply for this job?" And I did, I decked myself out in pink and green, I put my hearing aids on, I said, "I'm going to get this," and they gave me an interview.
0:27:14.4 Ryan Hartwig: So when I first started with Delta Zeta, I was the director of chapter services, and I traveled through the West Coast and the Mid-West, supporting all of our local college chapters through all of their operations and making sure that things were going smoothly. And then as my tenure with Delta Zeta stuck, it was like, "I've been there for six years now," there were opportunities for me to grow because I was so invested not just in the work that I was doing, but the organization itself. I really have loved all of the staff that I've worked with, the volunteers, I've had three incredible bosses that have taught me a lot about myself personally and professionally. Our Executive Director, Cindy, is absolutely incredible, and I said, "I want to stick around here." And so they found me a job in Educational Technology, which was great because it meant that I didn't have to travel so much, but I also can get into the nerd side of my brain.
0:28:14.6 Ryan Hartwig: So what I do is basically focus on our learning management system, collecting and compiling all of our chapter data for our National Council, support all of our conference planning as well as convention, which is coming up for Delta Zeta and making sure that everything is staying on track with our resources and figuring out what additional resources we need and how can we extend our education to the masses, not just the general member, but the alumni and the volunteers about Delta Zeta and what Delta Zeta has to offer. And so that has been kind of the focus on my work. I've actually been preparing for this job for about a year, but I've been fully in the position for six months, and so there's been a lot of learning curves about learning about member databases, I will say, but it's also been really rewarding because it's able to use a different side of my brain to continue to teach people about how to do their jobs or responsibilities, what's expected of them, but also being able to tell a story about what it is that the organization is going through through all of the chapters data, whether it's through our recruitment, RFM data, their just general membership numbers or philanthropy dollars, all of that stuff.
0:29:43.3 Ryan Hartwig: And so even though I would like to say I'm a very creative person and my job doesn't sound very creative, but it actually can be because it's just how you interpret it. So yeah, that's currently what I do for Delta Zeta, and it's been a really fun journey. We have a virtual conference this weekend, so we're gearing up for that which I'm really excited about, so yeah.
0:30:09.2 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, we have the Sigma Nu institute this weekend as well, which we now do virtually, although when you were in school, it would have been in person. That was kind of a COVID shift, but we're trying to figure out what that looks like going forward, if it will remain virtual or go back to in person, but... It is so funny to hear you talk about your experience. I will say from my undergraduate experience, Delta Zeta was one of the most desirable sororities. They were the one that everybody wanted to be a part of and so they had no issues with their recruitment rounds. And so there is like this exclusive idea that I have ingrained in my mind, not exclusive, that was the wrong word. Like this special...
0:31:02.1 Adam Girtz: Prestigious, yeah.
0:31:02.8 Christopher Brenton: Premier, engraved into my mind with Delta Zeta. So I'm like, "Oh, I'm talking to someone who's so important." [laughter] But it's...
0:31:09.6 Ryan Hartwig: What school did you go to?
0:31:13.9 Christopher Brenton: NC State.
0:31:13.9 Ryan Hartwig: Oh yeah, I never got the chance to work with them, but yeah, I've heard very good things about that chapter or so, cool.
0:31:22.3 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, so it's just so funny, but then of course, you get to our level and it's like, we all know each other, we're all friends, there's such this flattening of responsibility, especially because we all more of or less do the same things. Like I'm hearing you talk about your experience, and I'm like, "Oh yeah." When I was the Director of Chapter Services, there were elements of what you did in that role that I was doing or hearing you talk about your virtual experiences, that's the stuff that we're having to work on as well, so it's cool hearing the similarities even if the organization is different.
0:31:57.6 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, and I think that I was one of the first of three that started their transition from doing the traditional educational leadership consultant model to having three Directors of Chapter Services that oversaw 50-something chapters because what they were finding is that the information wasn't being retained and passed from what the consultants were saying, and so there are still things that I've been... I will go to... Like we had Presidents Academy two weeks ago, that was in person, I would be able to go up to some of those CCDs which is our College Chapter Directors, our primary advisors, and I still know a lot of them, which is really, really crazy. I worked with... For the four years, I worked with about 90-something chapters, anywhere from three months to three to four years. And so it's crazy how much information you retain from that. [laughter] But yeah, yeah it's fun being at this level because you get to see a totally different side of it that you think about what you were like in college, and you're like, "Oh man. If I would have known then what I know now, I would have been such a better leader, I would have been such a better fraternity man, I would have been way more of a rule follower, all that good stuff."
0:33:28.9 Ryan Hartwig: So that's like... And then when you try to tell them, "No, listen to me. Please trust me," and they're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And then they'll look back in five years and they'll be like, "Oh, gosh, I really should have listened to him." That's where I'm at, so yeah.
0:33:44.2 Adam Girtz: That's the nature of it, right? I appreciate that because it kind of ties into the segue I wanted to make, that's like you... I'm struck with your story so far, the... It really shines through the mission of Greek organizations, and I've always been fascinated with the collective nature of the organization that we have aimed towards one goal, and learning about that goal, especially you mentioned the Presidents Academy, we just had ours as well, the College of Chapters in January. And it is really neat to see all of these young men come in and they have all of this energy to be leaders, and they are looking for ways to temper that and leave College of Chapters with all of this excitement about like, "Oh, well, now I know how to do those things," and then they're going to go back on their campuses and they're going to try to do these things to try to accomplish the mission that we have.
0:34:48.6 Adam Girtz: And then from there, it's really neat hearing you talk about your connection to Delta Zeta, and then you going in and working for headquarters, it is... You found that mission that resonates with you, and now you are able to lend your strength and the things that you've learned to that mission. And at the same time, you are still promoting the mission of Sigma Nu as well, even though you're not on staff with us, but that mission persists regardless and that to me is always really fascinating. Like we have alumni who are able to donate some of their treasure or the things that they have access to, and donate that way, and then we also have... And so some of these cross over, obviously, but alumni and actives that donate through their efforts and they're putting forth work to accomplish the missions that we all have together, and I just think that's so neat.
0:35:58.1 Adam Girtz: That is, I think, something that is unique to Greek organizations, is how a member can join seeking friendship, companionship and socialization, and through the things that they learn there, that changes into, "Okay, now I am dedicated to the mission that this organization promotes and in learning about it, I'm able to direct my efforts towards that direction." And I think that you have such a cool angle on it too, because you had that semester where you tried and were not given a bid, you had to double down and... I know a lot of people and I know myself too, if I had been denied a bid, that might have been a signal to me to like, "Oh, well, I don't need these guys," or "I'm going to go join somewhere else," or something like that, but the fact you doubled down and you were like, "Okay, but I believe in this stuff." That and then to be accepted then or to be offered a bid then, and it's like a confirmation of like, "Yes, this is what I believe, and now I'm given the opportunity to put forward some work to actually help achieve those things. That's... I don't know. I love that. I think that's really cool.
0:37:15.4 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah. And I think that the one thing that I've learned specifically in working for Delta Zeta and working for a Greek organization is that, not everybody is going to be coming at the same level, not everybody is going to be having the same investment, and not everybody is going to be... Everybody is different, everybody is looking for something different from this experience, so how can we make it especially as an executive board member, and I would tell us to my executive board officers all the time. So if any exec guys are listening, when you're in an executive board and you're in a leadership position, this isn't about... You get your leadership skills by not making it about yourself, and by making it about the general member that's paying the money to get something out of this experience, whatever that might be. Whether it's social, whether it's leadership, whether it's a friendship, whether it's connections. And so I think that it's... What's really important for me now is how does this relate back to the real world and the real world experiences that we're going to have outside of college.
0:38:25.8 Ryan Hartwig: How can we be realistic about what it is that you're getting into by being in a fraternity or a sorority for the next anywhere from two to four years or one to four years, and what is it ultimately going to do to you and do for you, and how can you continue to invest yourself in the fraternity and sorority experience past college. Because I think you and I both know that, especially the way that NIC and NPC fraternities and sororities recruit, is that we get these people in there, and then a lot of them dry out and they're like, "Oh, four years, I'm done. On to the next thing, this was a great time, but now I want to do something else." And so I think that is the continued battle for me, is figuring out how do we continue to continue engagement and continue the connections and continue to find value in what it is that our Greek system has to offer outside of the four years of college, and sometimes... And if it's just you have your four best guy friends and you all see each other every now and again, and have Christmas parties and would hang out with their kids, like, is that enough? I don't know, but that's something that's always been kind of in the back of my head, I guess, so yeah.
0:39:52.3 Adam Girtz: Yeah, that's cool. So Ryan, in late September, you contributed to the fraternities National Hazing Prevention Week article titled The Life of Love. Can you talk more about why you believe the fraternities value of love is so important?
0:40:11.6 Ryan Hartwig: Because I think that if without love, you can't have... In my mind, and there's a lot of... What was it? A lot of honor first statements, I actually have always been challenged by that because without love, you can't have honor or you can't have truth. Like you have to invest in the people that are part of this organization, and you have to give them some resemblance of love or respect in order for you to have honor and truth. It has to start from that key component because if you... And especially thinking about it from the fraternity perspective of and in the context of hazing, but just in the context of how we treat one another is super, super important. And when you are a 18 to 20-year-old guy, a lot of our young men, I would say, don't necessarily... Probably haven't developed a lot of the qualities that they need to figure out what it is to give love, whether that's brotherly love or love towards a significant other or just love and respect towards your general person.
0:41:36.4 Ryan Hartwig: I think that that's what's really important, and that's what we need to be focusing on with these students, especially as our society has become a little bit more divided in the way that we do things and our different perspectives and especially when it comes to young men. Like the perceived notion of what it is to be a man, to hide your feelings, to avert yourself from being respectful to others because that's not what men do is really challenging, and it doesn't necessarily bring out the best in what our men have to offer. And so just from my undergraduate experience, I learned a lot that... Or actually, our men do have a lot of love to offer and being a pup member of Mu Kappa, I saw a lot of brotherly love there. So my perceived notion of what it is to be in a fraternity was totally removed from my own college experience. And then to learn that not others have that is really disheartening, because there's probably a lot of Sigma Nu chapters that don't have that.
0:42:52.0 Christopher Brenton: I think the word toxic masculinity gets thrown around, and I think a lot of people shut down whenever they hear that, but it is true, I think, that fraternity provides a really interesting experience of countering that to a certain extent, but then also to deconstruct it as well. I can distinctly remember during my collegiate experience encountering fellow brothers who to me were radical in the way that they expressed love to me and to other fraternity brothers. I grew up with a father who loved me dearly, but was not big on words of affirmation, not big on physical touch, hugs, all that kind of stuff, think about the five love languages, but for him, service is definitely... Acts of service is definitely how he demonstrates love to the rest of our family, he'll give you the shirt off his back, he'll do anything for you. But then I would encounter brothers who were like huggers, and I would hear family members come over to the Chapter House and it was more explicit and in your face. Or I just had brothers who would tell me they loved me and that they cared about me, and especially if I was expressing something vulnerable or frustration or during moments of depression and these really critical moments where I needed to hear that I had close friends who cared about me, and that completely changed my world view and that changed how I engage with others.
0:44:35.6 Christopher Brenton: And it was so transformational. And so I do... I hope that to those who hear the word toxic masculinity and hear about spaces of toxic masculinity and how that can be problematic, I think fraternity is a really great example of sometimes you just have to be in the space, you have to witness healthy masculinity in order to see how beneficial and productive and useful it can be to broaden your perspective on how love can be expressed, how important healthy friendships are. And so I absolutely agree with you. I think you're... When I read that article, I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is so important." I'm really glad that you expressed that point.
0:45:22.0 Ryan Hartwig: I don't... And I think that just from my perspective and sharing your experience is that we don't talk about love enough, we talk about... I have not read LEAD Phase one in a while, or two, or three, or four, but we haven't... Well, we don't talk about how people give love and how people like to receive love and how people... And what love means outside of the context of, I guess, romantic relationships or your relationships with your parents or your siblings like how can a bunch of men who come into a space hoping to seek friends, learn how to respect one another and how to engage with one another and how to build relationships with one another, if we don't talk about what it is that are our needs because we've been told not to. And toxic masculinity, I don't necessarily like... I hate that language because it doesn't necessarily like... Yes, it's ultimately what it is, but as soon as men hear that they shut down, so how can we frame the conversation not to be like, "You're the problem, because you're a man," but how can we deconstruct some of the things that maybe they had perceived to be as normal growing up, so that they can learn to be in spaces where they can connect and show respect. And it's not something that needs to be earned, it's something that's automatically given, right? So yeah.
0:47:08.9 Adam Girtz: Yeah. And it's something that is foreign to that 18, 19-year-old mindset, right? It's like... I feel like a lot of... And I'm thinking about, maybe I'm coloring it with my personal experience, but coming into college and coming out of high school, I had built a shell around myself of like, I need to present as being strong and in control, all of these things, and the way that society presents how you do that to a young man is through violence, whether that's your words or actions, and the hostility. And I think too, we truly talk about toxic masculinity and like you said, people shut down or young men will shut down when they hear that because it brings to mind toxic masculinity is cat calling or all of these other things that are from the individual out. But really, I think part of... The most damaging part of that culture of toxic masculinity is the damage to self, the not allowing oneself to be vulnerable, to trust other young men around you. And having worked with our active chapters, I'm very much struck by visiting a chapter and being able to feel the true sense of brotherly love and the opportunity for brothers to be vulnerable around one another and to trust one another. And so you talk about we can't have honor or truth without love first.
0:48:57.7 Adam Girtz: We have a workshop that we do with some of our chapters that's called To Walk in the Way of Honor. And it talks about a close group dynamic and respect earned within that group translates to honor, honor is the code that binds us. But if you don't care for or feel love towards that group, why would you care whether or not they respect you or whether or not you have esteem within that group. Yeah, I really agree with you. It really does come down to... Yeah, you have to have and receive love from your brothers in order for that to even exist.
0:49:45.5 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, and not in the way that they probably perceive love, like the definition of love, because I don't need to... Love can be defined in so many ways, and I don't need to meet a fraternity brother after five seconds and be like, "Oh, I have to love you," that's not how it works. And ultimately, there were people in my chapter that I could not stand, you're with 80 something guys I'm like, "Oh my gosh," but some of those men I have learned to love and respect and are in my life still because Sigma Nu taught me to invest in them, and to invest in who they are and to share my perspective and to listen to their perspective and even though... I'm thinking of one on the top of my head, I love him to death, but man, when I was in college, I just wanted to... He drove me nuts.
0:50:44.6 Ryan Hartwig: And that's what the fraternity experience is for, is to continue to stay invested, not only in the organization, but the people that you ultimately said yes to. And especially when you think of the concept of hazing or having to use substances to earn that respect or to be able to express those feelings, that's the part that concerns me about the fraternity culture is that, that's not what this is about. Our founders didn't want it to be about that, so it is not our responsibility to... Because of whatever our campus community is doing or whatever some of our alumni might have experienced back in the day, that's not what this is for, and so if those type... That's why in one of my articles, I was like, "It's going to be hard, it's going to take a lot of work. But if you see your chapter going down this path, it is time for you to start thinking differently about how you show love and respect for one another because especially in the climate around fraternities and sororities, it could ultimately not be there if you're not taking care of one another because that's the whole purpose of the space." So.
0:52:02.7 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, I find that love to me including the definitions that you've provided, I think to me it feels like it's the hardest to master of the three values and probably because it's the most social of the three values that it's interpersonal by nature. And so that requires a great deal of EQ, just your ability to understand and relate to others like a higher level of empathy in your ability to put yourself in their shoes to understand what they need from you in any given moment and what you may need from them in any given moment. And so I think for our members because it's the most difficult to master, it's probably where we need to put our most effort.
0:52:52.8 Christopher Brenton: And so many fundamental building blocks have love as a foundation, like we talked about the honor principle, love needing to exist within a space for people to honor and respect one another. During our staff retreats, we have a core covenant, it's kind of like a guiding document for our staff operations and our organizational culture and during our retreats, we talk about how for us to build trust with one another, there has to be vulnerability. Well, vulnerability is an act of love, and the hope that you're also going to receive that in return. So I just see it in all these small spaces, but as a value, it's so malleable in how it can take different forms, and how it can be utilized, and how it's needed.
0:53:52.8 Christopher Brenton: So yeah, I definitely don't think that this is easy stuff, but I just think that a chapter that loves well, with members who love each other well, to your point, probably see a lot fewer issues with trust, with accountability, with treating others with dignity, treating non-members with dignity as well. I think that that's so important.
0:54:25.8 Ryan Hartwig: Right. And I can't speak for the Mu Kappa of today. It looks like they're doing great, they're winning awards, they're on the rock, and I see all this stuff, but from the Mu Kappa of yesteryear, I guess, that is just... We talked a lot about honor, and we had a lot of long long chapter meetings where we talked about... We were very vulnerable with one another to the point where it almost felt painful, but the reality of it is, is that it's because those men were invested in the organization, in themselves that sometimes I think about those conversations we had and we would say, "That's not honor," and I'm like, that actually might have... That actually... What you're trying to say is that might actually would have been love, that's not love towards me, that's not respect towards me, and I think that that is one thing that I've always loved about Sigma Nu's values, is that it's just... They all are kind of full circle, you can't have one without the other, you have to have them all together. And so if we see, it's easy for you maybe as an organization or staff to say, okay, if we are seeing a missing value from this... Like from the specific Collegiate Chapter, how can we work with them to get them back on track? When you are fully encompassed and invested in all three values, and you're right. The one that is love, maybe not be... Is the hardest one to focus on.
0:55:57.4 Adam Girtz: Yeah. A two legged stool is not worth much.
0:56:00.7 Ryan Hartwig: Correct. Yeah.
0:56:03.0 Adam Girtz: So Ryan, to kind of wrap up our conversation on this, I would love to ask you your thoughts on this. So for our active members that are listening, and maybe alumni that are closely affiliated with the chapter, and you working with them in person on a regular basis, how can our brothers embody this value in their their lives and leadership? Like, if I'm a new member, how do I show love for my brothers in a way that's going to be productive for this and help increase that trust and honor?
0:56:39.6 Ryan Hartwig: People first, process second. That is something that we've been learning a lot in... And I don't mean to scare you all for your chapter operations. But, that is something that we've been learning a lot. And I've been learning a lot specifically in Delta Zeta because we've been doing some really great work specifically around our member accountability and standards process, and not everything being conformed to uniform box. The best thing that you could do for your brother is to lend a helping hand, right? Even if you are an executive board member is to how to figure out how to utilize your local bylaws, your local processes, your national processes to support the member because without the member, we don't have the experience, like we don't have this, right?
0:57:22.9 Ryan Hartwig: So that would be something that I would really, really focus on, like even if it... And I mean process not just your your bylaws or the law I mean, like even some of the history and traditions. If it's not putting the people first, then it's probably something that you need to reevaluate, right? If it's not focusing on the safety and the health and the betterment of the member, it's not doing what it needs to do. And if you're not taking the time to pay attention to what it is that your brothers are going through and asking like, what is going on, I am here for you, how can I help you, then you need to think about how you're doing your job. Because again, as an executive board member, as an advisor, as a volunteer, like you are of service to the general membership, right?
0:58:12.0 Ryan Hartwig: What you get out of it as an executive board member is totally different than what the general member is getting because it's not every general member wants to be an executive board position, not every general member wants to be in leadership. So your leadership is important and critical to how not only the chapter perceives you, but the overall health and investment of the chapter. And it's always... It's all about them. And then when you become a general member, it'll be about you again. But it's all about them and how they're perceiving their fraternity experience. So if you are not focusing on the person first over the process, you are missing a very critical part of the fraternity experience. And just for my fellow alumni brothers, there are some things that we just got to let go of. I may be 33, but I am old, and I do not understand college students the way that I used to. And I don't know if you all can relate, but back in my day doesn't necessarily resonate with the day to day of this student, what didn't work for you might work for them.
0:59:21.7 Ryan Hartwig: So as long as they're doing it for the betterment of the chapter and the betterment of the people that are in the college experience, like that's for them. And your job is to protect them and make sure that they're safe and they're being responsible. But I challenge our volunteers, I challenge the people that are invested in the fraternity to stop looking back at specifically those local traditions and those things that aren't necessarily important to the fraternity to start looking at like, how can this generation continue to find love in this organization especially because we know that the college student is significantly different than what it is them maybe even when we were in undergrad, and who is coming to college is significantly different. So I think that those are the ways that they can just take the subtle steps to show love and show respect towards their fellow brother. And it's always great to have a retreat at least once a semester, I would say.
1:00:31.6 Ryan Hartwig: I tell my woman that just go. I'm like, they have their formal recruitment like that week period where they really love on one another, and then they don't do anything. And then they all want to hate kill each other by the end of it. I'm like, go just learn to have fun and love one another again, like, and to learn something new about someone in your chapter, like that's the easiest thing that you can do. So that's my soap box. [laughter]
1:00:57.0 Adam Girtz: I love it. That's what you're here for. I'm glad you got the chance.
1:01:00.1 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.
1:01:03.6 Adam Girtz: Well, cool. What a great message, I think. In a time that I think we all need it is a little bit more love in our chapters, in our life. So for our listeners out there, this is your sign, tell your brothers you love them today, and tomorrow and the next day. But yeah, don't don't be afraid to show that because that is what fraternity ultimately is about, right? It's about us. It's about each other. So, Ryan, thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you for spending some time talking with us today. And thank you for your efforts helping out contributing to our National Hazing Prevention Week. Very cool. A really great article, and we will link to the article in the show notes as well. So listeners, if you'd like to go read Ryan's piece, please do that. Ryan, thanks for being here, man.
1:02:00.4 Ryan Hartwig: Yeah, thanks for having me. Again, I appreciate it.
1:02:00.5 Christopher Brenton: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
[Transition Music]
1:02:33.5 Adam Girtz: Hello, everyone. Welcome back. Great interview with Ryan, you really really enjoyed that, kind of like we talked about on the front end here, just like coming at one of our core principles, you're from a kind of a new angle and really taking time to consider it. Really cool. So Christopher and I actually both did... Or were you part of the institutes? Did you lead a track this year?
1:03:01.2 Christopher Brenton: I did. I was the facilitator for our community service and philanthropy track.
1:03:05.8 Adam Girtz: Okay, I thought, so I didn't want to assume, but I should have known that. Anyway, so I did the chaplain and brotherhood track and something that we talked about in that track was kind of taking time to examine the ritual and read it and understand the connection to our values. And what does it instruct us to do when it comes to treating our brothers correctly, and with respect as well as showing our values in public in the community, right? We go through kind of the secret thoughts of a ritual piece that that is featured on our website as well.
1:03:56.8 Adam Girtz: And we talk about like, if everyone knew the secrets of our ritual, and we're able to see all of that, what would they expect from us? They would expect us to live by those values, right? So I think this conversation with Ryan is a good examination of like, yes, we say love, honor and truth, but how do we show that, especially for our brothers. And that I think it's funny too, because like, it's something that if you were a member of a chapter, you experienced this, like by definition, you have to have experienced some kind of like brotherly love. Otherwise, how is your chapter existing if you don't like each other, right? Or you don't respect each other or like want to show each other that you all feel that you belong and all of that show that to your brothers, but like really taking time to sit and think about it. And how do I actively show that to my brothers every day is really neat.
1:04:57.7 Adam Girtz: And I felt it, I still feel it from my home chapter as well as now joining staff and meeting all these other alumni like there is that instant connection of like, hey, you are a member of my organization, I know that you subscribe to these same values, and I'm going to preemptively show you that love and respect. I just think that's a really neat idea.
1:05:21.4 Christopher Brenton: Yeah. And again, Adam has referenced this, but we don't typically record our bumpers the same day that we record the interview. And so in some ways it gives us opportunities to reflect on what we talked about and then process it. And then now we get to share that. And similar to what Adam's describing, I was recently watching the Hulu docu series Welcome to Wrexham kind of documenting Ryan Reynolds, the actor Ryan Reynolds and the actor Rob McElhaney's acquisition of the Wrexham football club in Wales. And there's an episode that is dedicated to talking about their friendship. And, it was interesting seeing the documentary to discover that, Rob and Ryan had never know... Sorry, did not know each other prior to, I think, connecting first through like social media, funny enough. And of course, like we all kind of assume like, oh, everybody in Hollywood knows each other and are throwing water on that idea. But then they have this idea of like, hey, what if we collectively purchased a football team, an English football team?
1:06:44.8 Adam Girtz: Yes. And this is soccer for all us Americans here is what he's speaking of.
1:06:49.4 Christopher Brenton: Exactly.
1:06:50.1 Adam Girtz: Not American football.
1:06:50.7 Christopher Brenton: Exactly. But anyway, they become fast friends. And so the episode is exploring their friendship, like the dynamics of their friendship and how they gained a very close friendship in such a short period of time. But then also talking about the relationship between sons and fathers, between male friends, kind of soccer or football as the vehicle for that, have a common binding element. And in some ways, an opportunity for men to have space to be vulnerable. To show passion, to cry to experience deep emotion and kind of sports being a vehicle for that. And because we don't... In most spaces, we have to have a stiff upper lip. We've got to carry the burdens of the world, but then sports or fraternity gives us the space to let loose, to let our guard down around close friends and men who care about each other.
1:08:09.6 Christopher Brenton: And so it was really poignant to have experienced this or to have participated in this episode and then to go on and hear, I think some of the language and some of the things that we talked about in the episode reflected back to me in this docu series. So one, giving a recommendation for people, I really enjoyed the Welcome to Wrexham series and would recommend it to folks who might be interested in that. But then two, I just thought it was really neat to hear that. And again, have it connect back to what we're talking about.
1:08:41.1 Adam Girtz: Agreed. Yeah, that's neat. Would I be Rob or would I be Ryan? Would you be Rob or Ryan? I think I'm Rob, you're Ryan. Maybe the other way around.
1:08:53.0 Christopher Brenton: That's a great question. I feel like we're in some ways we're probably both Rob.
[laughter]
1:09:00.9 Adam Girtz: We're both Ryan, neither of us are Rob? Yeah, that's fair. We're just a couple of Ryans. Christopher, do you want to buy a soccer team with me?
1:09:08.4 Christopher Brenton: I would have to come up with the money. I feel like I'm several hundred million short. But I'll let you know if I have some sort of magic windfall.
1:09:19.5 Adam Girtz: Christopher, what's the best way to make $2 million?
1:09:25.6 Christopher Brenton: Have $4 million?
1:09:25.7 Adam Girtz: Yeah, start with four. Anyway, so awesome article or awesome article and awesome interview. Really enjoyed meeting Ryan. And yeah, just overall a very pleasant experiences as all of our interviews are. So Christopher, any other thoughts on the article before we jump into some plugs here for the interview?
1:09:48.1 Christopher Brenton: I think we can move to the plugs.
1:09:50.1 Adam Girtz: Okay. Well, so plugs, we do have the staff hiring spring deadline coming up. And that is March 15th. 1st. March 1st. It is March 1st that this deadline is coming up on. That being said, we do, as we've mentioned, we take applications on a rolling basis. So, if this isn't the right the right time for you are considering other options or anything else, there's definitely always time and always a place to accept applications. But that's when that consideration deadline for the standard process will be moving on is that March 1st.
1:10:35.9 Christopher Brenton: And real quick. One, if this is an audio medium, you missed on the opportunity of me like frantically holding up my fingers to show that it's the 1st date...
1:10:43.7 Adam Girtz: Yeah, holding up a one, thank you Christopher.
1:10:45.9 Christopher Brenton: And not the 15th. It is October 15th and March 1st. Those are our two deadlines. So it's an easy mistake, but like Adam said, it's rolling basis, submit your applications at any point. But this March 1st deadline will be for a June 1st, 2023 start date. So if you have not finalized your... Sorry, if you're a collegiate member listening and you have not finalized your... Or young alumnus and if you're not finalized your career plans, this is an opportunity potentially for you to find a career and working for the fraternity, at least in the short term, the leadership consultant program is traditionally a two-year experience.
1:11:31.0 Christopher Brenton: I like to pitch it as a really great bridge for folks who might be interested in going to some graduate level program. Perhaps you want to work in higher education, you want to go get your MBA. This is really great bridge between those two. It gives you a little bit of professional experience without committing you to a long term career. So you can take your experience and then go back into your coursework which gives you good practical application. So I did also want to flag our most recent bonus episode. If you are someone who is interested or maybe you're an alumnus, and you're like, "Hey, I think, I would love to see a couple of our chapter members, collegiate chapter members," apply for this opportunity, what resources are out there to expose them to what it would be like. We just recorded and released a brand new episode which is an interview with our 2018 consultant class of which Adam is a part.
1:12:32.0 Adam Girtz: My class.
1:12:35.3 Christopher Brenton: And that is... I served as the MC for that. Adam, of course, is a part of that class. But then of course, kind of served as a co-facilitator for the episode, in addition to pulling double duty as a member of the 2018 class. But then we were also joined with former staff member, Tre Nelson, who is an initiate of our Mu Rho Chapter at Northwestern State University, and Gabe Castro, who's an initiate of our Kappa Theta chapter at Jacksonville University. So great, great, great perspectives, I think, from that episode on anyone who might be interested in like, hey, I want to go work for the fraternity, but I don't want to work for the fraternity after my two years. All right, well, cool, Gabe and Trey have you covered in that regard, because they didn't do that. Hey, I might be interested in working for the fraternity after being a leadership consultant. Great, Adam's got that perspective covered. So we tried to cover our bases and have different perspectives while still talking about how memorable and impactful the experience is. So highly recommend that resource.
1:13:41.3 Adam Girtz: Yeah, and even if you're not interested in working in a career in higher ed, I even talked to a couple of collegiate members who were going to go be engineers, right? It is still relevant to that. It really teaches you a lot of your life skills that are applicable to every field, right? Public speaking, self management, problem identification and solution, right? Like that is what you're doing all day is identifying problems that a chapter might have and then helping the officers solve those problems. So directly applicable to everything and I think looks great on a resume. So you get some worldly experience traveling the country and get to have a little bit of fun while you do it. So definitely recommend the experience to any anybody who is soon to be graduating or has recently graduated. So the other big plug we have is Grand Chapter. Christopher, would you care to share with us some information about Grand Chapter that we are all very excited for?
1:14:53.8 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, so the 70th Grand Chapter, which it's an important milestone, it'll be a big event, definitely important to be there. So please do plan accordingly. The 70th Grand Chapter will take place on June 28th, through July 2nd, it'll be at the Marriott Harbor Beach Resort and Spa in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. So we're looking for the sunny beaches of North Miami or Fort Lauderdale. But we are going to be releasing information and registration for Grand Chapter very soon. It's not live as of the recording of this episode. However, it is very likely that by the time that this episode releases or shortly thereafter, registration will be live. So bookmark sigmanu.org/grandchapter. That will take you to the registration page where you can find more information out about the upcoming Grand Chapter.
1:15:53.6 Christopher Brenton: But then also if you have any questions, you can email those questions to GC, the letters G-C, gc.info@sigmanu.org. So the abbreviation for Grand Chapter, G-C.info, I-N-F-O@sigmanu.org. And those will go to the appropriate staff members, especially if you've got any questions on hey, I'm a grand officer, what do I do? My alumni chapter wants to send me as a representative, what do I do? Hey, I'm a collegiate member, who all is invited or who all supposed to come? That could be a great space to find those answers to those questions. There will be FAQs, there will be more information that is rolled out with the launch of registration. So it's likely that any of those questions that I just asked will be answered in brief on the website. But if any questions that you might have are not directly available there, gc.info@sigmanu.org is the best place to find or to get answers to those questions.
1:17:00.5 Adam Girtz: Yep. And as always, any of those contacts that we mentioned will be featured in the episode notes as well. So again, if you're driving can't write something down right now. Go ahead and check out the episode notes later and you can find all that information. So awesome. Yeah, very excited to do Grand Chapter in person again, personally on my end. So I wasn't able to attend Grand Chapter as a collegiate member, was able to attend my first year on staff for summer, we had the Grand Chapter in Washington DC, which was really cool 68th and the postponed and then held virtual 69th Grand Chapter in 2021 was fun, but lacked that in person feel of it. So very excited to get back in person and do this. Fort Lauderdale. Is it going to be Frat Lauderdale? Is it going to be Fort Lauderdale? What are we calling it when we all descend on this lovely town in Florida?
1:18:09.2 Christopher Brenton: Well, hopefully, well respected and esteemed Fort Lauderdale based on the behavior of our members, but I'm sure that...
1:18:23.9 Adam Girtz: Fort Fraternity Lauderdale.
1:18:25.8 Christopher Brenton: Yes, something like that. But no, it's going to be a great time. And for those of you don't know Grand Chapter is our legislative body that is where we convene to make changes to the law of Sigma Nu fraternity as well as elect our new grand officers and high council for the next biennium. And so, if you want to be a part of the process of affecting the future of the organization, please be at Grand Chapter. That's where you do it.
1:18:58.5 Adam Girtz: And biennial means two years. Every two years. And now it's on the odd number years. And that bothers me even though I don't have a logical reason why it should but it does.
[laughter]
1:19:12.1 Christopher Brenton: Well, now we are in line with our inner fraternal peers, Kappa Alpha, who also has an odd number of years.
1:19:20.0 Adam Girtz: Which also in 2069, we will have our 200th anniversary and be able to do a Grand Chapter in that anniversary year.
1:19:32.2 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, and that way it is a realignment to better align with our founding date. So it works out in our favor.
1:19:39.9 Adam Girtz: Love it. All right, everyone. Well, thank you all for listening. We really appreciate all of you guys out there in podcast land that are listening to us. It's been really neat, especially this last month with collegiate chapters getting to meet some of our listeners in person and to hear from some people that there are avid listeners out there. So that was really neat to hear that we're making a splash in that way. But yeah, thank you all for listening and we will talk to you next month.
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