In the final episode of our 3-part series, Adam and Christopher interview second-term/outgoing Commanders at the 2023 College of Chapters. In this episode, hear the guests share advice and best practices for incoming/first-term Commanders and recommendations on how to have a successful year.
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The Gavel Podcast - Ep 27 - Advice from Past Commanders - College of Chapters 2023
[Intro Music]
0:00:42.4 Adam Girtz: Hello and welcome to the latest episode of The Gavel Podcast. I'm Adam.
0:00:45.9 Christopher Brenton: And I'm Christopher.
0:00:47.6 Adam Girtz: The Gavel podcast is the official podcast of Sigma Nu Fraternity, and it's a show dedicated to keeping you updated on the operations of the Legion of Honor, and connecting you to the stories from our brotherhood.
0:00:56.8 Christopher Brenton: To find out more from the Fraternity, you can always check out our website at sigmanu.org. You can also find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Sigma Nu HQ or by searching for Sigma Nu fraternity.
0:01:07.8 Adam Girtz: Welcome everyone to another episode. This is very cool. This is part three of our three-part limited run series of audio captured at the historic College of Chapters 2023. As Scott Smith might say, the College of Chapters only happened once and you had to be there to be part of it. But fortunately for our listeners, we were able to capture some of the audio from College of Chapters so that it may live forever in the archives of our audio-based format podcast. Yes, I'm trying to be fancy, Christopher Brenton. We have awesome audio, and I want to be fancy with it. [laughter]
0:01:56.3 Christopher Brenton: You keep doing what you're doing.
0:01:57.8 Adam Girtz: I'm doing my best. The remark to you as we were getting ready for recording today, that it feels like, this series makes me feel more like a podcast host than I have in the past. And then that's not to discredit any other episode that we've ever done, but it does feel since we're going back to back on these and we're capturing stuff in the field and all that, I'm just reminded of some of my favorite podcasts that I listen to and how that's something that they do. So this is kind of fun. This is very neat. Well, Christopher Brenton, part three of our series here is advice for incoming Commanders. And so this audio that we're going to go through here in a second was something that I did while everyone else was busy teaching and learning and being present at College of Chapters. I was able to steal away six of our active members who have served as Commander for their own chapter and I asked them a series of questions. And I'll get into that in a second, what to expect with it. And so those Commanders then, or those past Commanders you gave us some good advice on basically things that they wish they knew going into their time as a Commander.
0:03:24.7 Adam Girtz: So yeah, basically what we have is, like I said, six Commanders. So Andrew Hengstler of Gamma Chi, Carson Journee of Mu Upsilon, Anthony Perroti of Iota Pi, Cameron Allen of Zeta Nu, Stewart McCullough of Epsilon Xi, and Jason Roberts of Eta Delta. So some excellent experience there. And we're very excited to share the interview with you guys. So there was one thing I have been thinking about with College of Chapters here that I think is so unique and I think is captured within this audio that we're going to go through. And that's that you... By its nature College of Chapters assembles chapters from every walk of life. And that is successful chapters, struggling chapters mid-range chapters. [chuckle] Every chapter in every situation that we have by definition is represented at College of Chapters just because it is every Commander from every chapter as well as other officers. So the audio will play today, I think captures that. It captures chapters that are in every position. And the advice to be given by those Commanders, I think can benefit everyone and particularly Commanders that are in that same boat.
0:04:56.3 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, absolutely. And too, a little bit of praise for you. I think it's, this is your brainchild and I think it's super exciting that we get to do this because, again, because we are bringing so many unique people to College of Chapters, we have a really unique opportunity there to capture advice and to really bottle it for future generations of officers. because this is going to be an evergreen resource, we'll be able to share this next year. And I think that that again, increases just the value of that College of Chapter's experience that we have so many resources, so much good content and so many great experiences that come out of that event. And so I'm really excited to be able to share what you were able to capture at College of Chapters.
0:05:51.6 Adam Girtz: Yeah. Well, cool and as always I'll invite our listeners, you reach out to us. We love hearing from you all. News@sigmanu.org is the where you can reach us. And I would say if you have any advice for Commanders, go ahead and share that with us. I'd love to someday put together a listener mail episode and that can be something that Christopher Brenton and I can talk about later. I might be springing that on him, [chuckle] but I think we've talked about it in the past. But yeah, definitely if you are an alumnus or even if you are just starting your term as Commander and you already learned something go ahead and share that with us news@sigmanu.org. And I'd love to read some of those responses from you all and maybe we'll use it in a future episode. So well in the meantime we're going to cut to my interviews with the Commanders and I will be back briefly to lead us through that and introduce our Commanders there. And stick around to the end to hear some shoutouts from those Commanders. So if you're listening from the chapter or I think one of the guys might have even shouted out mom and dad. So mom and dad, if you're listening, [chuckle] brace yourself for that, I guess. But yeah, let's dive into our interview with Commanders or past Commanders from College of Chapters 2023.
[Transition Music]
0:07:43.1 Adam Girtz: All right, everyone, welcome to our Commander's advice panel. So I was able to sit down with six of our past Commanders at College of Chapters. And that group is scattered between really second term Commanders, a previous Commander now serving as a new officer position as well as a couple of our collegiate grand councilmen as well who have served as Commanders in the past. So I was able to speak with an Andrew Hengstler of Gamma Xi, Carson Journee of Mu Upsilon, Anthony Perrotti of Iota Pi, Cameron Allen of Zeta Nu, Stewart McCullough of Epsilon Xi, and Jason Roberts of Eta Delta. So thank you guys for sitting down with me and taking some time away from the core session that we were... That you guys were in while we were recording these on the side. So really neat and we're going to dive into the interview here. So basically the way I'll do it is just play some of the responses that I got for the couple of questions that I posed to each of them. So the first question that we posed was, if you could send a message to your past self on day one of your term, what would you say? What did you... What do you wish you knew then that you know now? So let's hear what they had to say.
0:09:06.5 Carson Journee: I wish I knew exactly the amount of time and preparation it takes to effectively run a chapter.
0:09:14.1 Andrew Hengstler: Yeah, I'd definitely say first off don't take on too much too quick. When you're over-encumbered and over-passionate about things that may not directly impact your bottom line and your vision for your chapter you're not going to be able to lead as effectively as you would. That's definitely something I struggled with initially, "Gang ho!" ready to get out there, do as much as I can. And that's definitely led to some burnout over my two years chapter leadership experience. But I'm certainly grateful for all the work that we've put in and all the progress we've made. But yeah, definitely don't do too much too quick, that was a huge thing for me. And also just understand that the people you're going to meet along the way in the course of being in chapter leadership is really important. Build your community around you to support Sigma Nu. We're not really anything without the community that we create, whether within our sphere of influence or around it. The people you meet, the people that are going to be your number one supporters, the people are going to connect you with resources or mentorship or advice just in running your chapter or making decisions on really big issues is incredibly important.
0:10:27.3 Anthony Perrotti: Yeah, so I can definitely say a lot of things, but definitely be open-minded when you're going in this position as well as your chapter elected you for a reason. They understand that it's your first time doing this position as in really your entire EC, maybe their second year, but just going there with an open mind, understand that they elected you for the first time and they trust you and just learn from there.
0:10:51.6 Cameron Allen: Yeah. Looking back with all the knowledge that I've gained throughout my term I think if I could give myself some advice on day one, it'd be certainly just to trust my officer team more than I initially did, and to trust everybody around me, whether just be your act standard active brother or your university administration. It's scary to start off this role because everything falls on you and I'm the kind of person where I want to control my own destiny and if something goes wrong, I don't want to have to worry about it being someone else's fault. But at the end of the day, I was surrounded by a great officer team who was really supportive and really helpful and was phenomenal at taking the day-to-day responsibilities off my chest so I could focus on more big and influential projects for the chapter.
0:11:38.8 Stewart McCullough: The one thing that I wish I knew when I started on day one is to be present in every single moment and also to soak in the good days and everything that you're able to do well on those good days. Because as Commander, everyone knows that it's challenging. There's bad days, there's difficult days, and there's days that you wish would end a lot sooner than they do. And if you are not present in the moment and understanding what you have accomplished and what good you have done for the chapter, those long days that are challenging, not having that at your disposal to remember where we started and here now where we are is certainly something that you probably regret not having in the moment.
0:12:20.9 Jason Roberts: If I could send a message to my past self on day one of my term, I'd probably go with along the lines of, I run a little bit of smaller chapter, so it's a lot harder to get all the guys there or have enough manpower or anything that. So it's just having everything and having each position plan everything out ahead of time, like a month ahead of time, because a lot of our guys work full-time.
0:12:42.6 Adam Girtz: Some really great advice there from the Commanders. Really what I take away from that is, your second term Commanders are wishing confidence on themselves in that first few weeks of assuming the position for the first time. So if I was a Commander, what I would take away from that really is, "Take a deep breath, everything's going to be fine, you were elected for a reason, you're the best man for the job, and your chapter believes in you." So marshal the resources that you have at your disposal, set a plan and then you work it. Plan the work, then work the plan. So really I would say your bottom line there is be confident in yourself and remember that your chapter's rooting for you. So if you go in into it with that mindset, I think you're going to be successful. So our second question that I asked the Commanders was, what advice do you have for Commanders starting their term this term? So that would be you guys listening right now starting your brand new term as Commander or any other officer. Let's see what they had to say.
0:13:51.1 Carson Journee: For some advice for the incoming Commanders, I recommend reading your manual, that is your best friend, your Commander manual and also just communication with other brothers in your fraternity, also alumni and use their knowledge to help better your own and be more efficient in running your chapter.
0:14:18.3 Andrew Hengstler: Yeah, I would definitely say really important to be right there in the trenches with your brothers. You're not going to be an effective leader if you're leading from the back, cracking a whip. You've gotta be pulling the sled with your guys, be there when you need to be there. If you say you're going to do something, make sure it gets done. It might take a little bit longer if you've got a lot going on, but at the end of the day, if you do what you say you're going to do and you're there with your brothers you're going to go places. And I'd also say don't be afraid to challenge tradition. A lot of chapters that I've come to know and meet they're held back by, "Well, we've always done it this way," or, "This is the way things are done." And over years, a tradition gets obscured to a point where, especially in my own chapter, it's like, "Why are we even doing this anymore? Nobody's getting value out of this. Nobody's having fun. What's the point?" So don't be afraid to be the guy who's constantly reevaluating the things that you do and making sure that they align with where you want to go in your own term and where you want your future brothers to go when you're done in charge.
0:15:29.4 Anthony Perrotti: So Commanders starting their first term, make friends. This is a new experience and you want to get to know as much as possible. Don't take everything so heavy, understand that you're in this role voluntarily to serve your chapter the best way you can. So do everything that you can, but don't overwhelm yourself. Also try and delegate things as well. You have an EC there for a reason. It's not just you against the world. You do have a strong national organization behind you, a strong alumni base there from your local chapter as well as your entire chapter and EC board. So don't take everything so heavy.
0:16:05.5 Cameron Allen: So being a chapter Commander is a lot of work, it takes up a lot of time. And unfortunately, in my experience, the things that take up the most time are the unexpected things that you don't have time to prepare for. So you really have to be very diligent with your studies. And if you have a job, you have to be very very well planned around all those things so that when crisis does come up, you have your built-in availability in your schedule so that you... What happens at the fraternity doesn't affect your school and doesn't affect your work. You just have to be super, super prepared and well planned out and you have to stick to the schedule.
0:16:41.2 Stewart McCullough: Yeah, the two pieces of advice that I would have for Commanders that are going to be starting their position here shortly is, the first thing is to make sure that you're developing those below you, not only those on the executive board below you. Obviously if they're being developed and they're getting better at their job, it makes your life a lot easier, I can promise you that. I've seen that personally, but also making sure that you develop with those people that you don't interact with on a daily basis, say the freshman and sophomore. As a senior myself, I don't interact with them a lot. We have a large chapter with over 260 people. And so it's difficult for us, for me in particular to make those connections with every freshman and sophomore, but if I'm developing them, it allows them to be catalyst and be leaders in the future.
0:17:29.7 Stewart McCullough: And the things that we are starting now and doing now it lets me know and the rest of the people on my exec board and the future alumni pretty here shortly, letting them know that what we're doing now, the good we're doing now will be continued into the future. And the second piece of advice that I have is, is don't underestimate your ability to impact not only the chapter, but everything that goes into the chapter, the individual people, and the overall direction of the chapter. When I started as Commander, we really set a five-year vision of what we want to see the chapter to be. When we graduate five years down the road, we come back for our first reunion, what do we want this chapter to look like? And do not think that you... As a Commander a lot of chapters have been open for 100 years and they have a lot of alumni and you are just a very small slice, but do not underestimate your ability as Commander to really influence the direction and growth of the chapter. And I think that's what's hard to understand especially with a large chapter like mine, how much influence you can have, positive influence.
0:18:42.2 Jason Roberts: Don't go into it with a bad attitude about how, "I'm just going to run this." You want your chapter to agree with you so that you can go through and get the things that you think need to be done, as well as what the chapter thinks needs to be done.
0:18:56.9 Adam Girtz: Some really great advice there on that second question. So, yeah, I recognize that the two questions that we asked really amount to basically the same question, but I am interested by the fact that the Commanders went into different directions with both of the questions. Which is great, and that's really what I was hoping for. So really the upshot of the second set of responses here, I see as you're the Commander, you're the guy, [chuckle] you're the man on the spot, and you are the person that has been put in charge. You're the guy that has the confidence of your chapter behind you and because of that then, there are certain expectations. There's expectations that you are the representative of your chapter. There's expectations that you are promoting the chapter and advocating for the chapter, and you're networking with other presidents on campus with all of the people, the stakeholders that you have that have interest in your chapter. So campus professionals, fraternity/sorority life office, alumni, headquarters, all of these relationships that you as a Commander are going to have to manage now, but you are that person for a reason.
0:20:11.8 Adam Girtz: Again, you were put in that position because your chapter thinks that you have the best chance of doing well with that. So stand tall and be that person, be the person that your chapter believes you to be. And if you feel like you have to fake it till you make it, that's okay. Fake it till you make it, man. Yeah, that's really the thrust of what I'm hearing from our Commanders on this. For our last question then, I gave the Commanders the opportunity to give some shoutout. So go ahead and listen for some shoutouts from our Commanders that we interviewed.
0:20:49.4 Carson Journee: Shoutout to Stephen F. Austin.
0:20:51.7 Andrew Hengstler: Yeah, just shout out to the brothers as Sigma Nu Gamma Ci. Shoutout to Jerry, our chef, she's been cooking for us for 20 years, and can't wait to see you guys when I get home. Yeah.
0:21:02.1 Anthony Perrotti: Shoutout to Kennesaw State University.
0:21:06.3 Cameron Allen: I want to shout out all my friends in the 406, the greatest state in the union of Montana. I know that Sawyer Reagan diligently listens to these podcasts from our chapter, so I hope this reaches you and I hope you're doing well Sawyer, thanks. Shoutout to my mom and dad from Tekoa in Washington, and thanks for everything that they did. [chuckle]
0:21:29.3 Stewart McCullough: Yeah. I'll shout out all the guys on the Epsilon Xi exec board at Ole Miss. We've got over 20 guys on our exec board, and I definitely... They hear the ringtone for my text messages and phone calls more than they probably hear from their parents or significant others in their life, and so I appreciate everything they do for our chapter on a daily basis. And I also appreciate all of our individual members, and so if they're listening know that I... Some days, they're challenging, we ask a lot of our members, but at the end of the day, we appreciate everything that you do, because without your members and the brothers of your fraternity, what are you doing this for?
0:22:16.1 Jason Roberts: Hello, mom and dad. [chuckle]
0:22:19.4 Adam Girtz: Some really great shout-outs there. So I personally, if I could give some shout-outs, so shoutout to Carson, Andrew, Anthony, Cameron, Stewart and Jason, thank you guys so much for sitting down with me. Honestly, this was a blast to get to sit down and do some field recording, this is something new for the podcast that we were able to do and the feedback that we've gotten internally as well as from the guys that we were able to interviews leads me to... We are definitely going to try to do more field recording, so you keep an eye out for new potential future opportunities to get interviewed for the podcast. So if you're at Grand Chapter or another event in the future, I'm going to try to figure out how to get some quick and easy recordings done, either through phone or something else. So really just shout out to our guys that were able to interview with us, as well as a regional like Maury Gaston for giving us some advice that I'll get into in the closing of the episode here. So yeah, thank you all for listening to this experimental new format for our podcast. And yeah, well I'll toss it back to me and Christopher Brenton to do the bumper, so we'll see you on the other side.
[Transition Music]
0:24:08.6 Adam Girtz: Alright. Welcome back, everyone. Very cool. I really enjoyed doing that, and that's something that I want to do more of in the future. Christopher Brenton is doing some of these in the field interviews and recordings and stuff like that, so maybe that can be a future bonus episode material. I need to get myself one of those fancy little field recorders, maybe I can just do it from my phone, but it'd be fun to have little thing, it's got the little microphone on it.
0:24:38.4 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, well, we have Grand Chapter coming up, so maybe there's potential there.
0:24:42.3 Adam Girtz: Oh, Grand Chapter interviews. Yeah, I'm definitely going to do that. Well, we really appreciate the advice from our Commanders, from our former past Commanders, I also... While I was doing this, and I'm kicking myself for not snagging a quick recording of it on my phone or something like that, but... So, I was able to have a conversation with reagent elect Maury Gaston of the Beta Theta chapter, and he had some advice for Commanders that I'd like to share as well. So his advice for our Commanders of our chapters, whether you're incoming, or midway through your term, or listening to this later, and towards the end of your term, his advice was to just be responsive.
0:25:29.9 Adam Girtz: And basically what he meant with that is... Came from his personal experience, which is, if he's emailing a Commander or an officer of the chapter, he's volunteering his time to provide assistance to the chapter. And to not get a response to that is really hard, it makes it really hard to provide that help. And so I think then what our Commanders can take from that is to respond back to whether it's emails, text messages, voicemail, getting a call, speaking to someone in person, just being responsive and you letting that person know whether it's an alumnus or a campus professional or a member of another chapter maybe, or maybe even your own members. But if they're reaching out to you, they're reaching out to you with a purpose, so as a Commander, your responsibility really is to be the mouthpiece of the chapter and to be that central person that everyone's going to go to, and that can get overwhelming for sure.
0:26:39.2 Adam Girtz: As a past Commander myself, I definitely know there were some days where I wanted to just log out of my email at the end of the day and not have to think about it till Monday morning. But while that might be short-term comfort for you or an alleviation of what you feel like is the source of stress, really being responsive and being communicative is A, your job as a Commander and B, something that's going to help lead you to success is continuing to be that mouthpiece and to be present. And one benefit of being responsive is it shows everyone that you're interacting with that you are taking this seriously, and that you value their time that they're offering you to work with you on that. So thanks to our reagent elect Maury Gaston for his wonderful advice, and hopefully that is another good piece of advice for our Commanders. Christopher Brenton, do you have any advice for our Commanders or other officers?
0:27:51.8 Christopher Brenton: Yeah, I would just say for our officers who maybe are feeling overwhelmed, you've got the rest of the year in front of you and then you're just like, "I don't even know where to start." It is, I think, for a lot of people may be unpopular, maybe they don't feel particularly good feelings about it because it is quite the in-depth assessment that we ask our chapters to complete every year. But pursuit of excellence is an incredible resource if you take advantage of it and you use it correctly. Every year, we ask our chapters to participate in pursuit of excellence to complete an end of the year evaluation that is then reviewed by staff and we provide feedback and we give recommendations for improvement. So what? If you are listening to this and you're like, "I never received any feedback," or that, "The previous Commander never shared that with me."
0:28:46.9 Christopher Brenton: Recheck your consultant, we can pass forward last year's chapter results, and so you can look at that feedback, get advice on how you could make improvements from the previous year to at least to be 1% better. And if you are able to improve by 1% every single year, eventually you're going to get to 100%, you're going to be the best version of yourself. And so we're just always looking for incremental improvement, we're not asking for you to pursue excellence in your first year or immediately, but we want that to be the end goal that you're working towards. And also within the pursuit of excellence, we do have really drawn out evaluation guidelines, and those evaluation guidelines show the different criteria for each rating. So we rate on a scale of acceptable to excellent for our acceptable in grader criteria, acceptable being the minimum standard there that we expect of our Commanders.
0:29:53.3 Christopher Brenton: If you are a chapter that's performing at an acceptable level, don't assume that you need to immediately jump to excellence. If you know you have it in you and you feel like it's attainable, do it, but it's perfectly fine for, again, that incremental improvement for you to say, "Hey, we're acceptable right now, how can we get to good?" And looking at the criteria for good and saying, "Hey, that means that we have to do one additional phase of LEAD," or, "We have to do one additional alumni newsletter," or, "We need to do an additional service event with a community partner." It's trying to figure out what are the ways in which you can improve incrementally, and I think if you approach it from that perspective, your job doesn't feel as overwhelming as it might if you're just looking at the excellence criteria.
0:30:41.8 Christopher Brenton: So to all of the Commanders out there who are... Their hands are flailing, they're like, "Hey, I'm drowning." One, take a deep breath, two, reach out to any staff person, any of your leadership consultants, us on the podcast, anyone at headquarters, your alumni volunteers, your campus professionals, you have the current sorority life office. Reach out, ask for assistance, and then also you allow for pursuit of excellence to be a guide for you in this year.
0:31:12.0 Adam Girtz: Yeah, yeah, really breaking down any large project into its component pieces is a really great way to start, and pursuit of excellence is exactly how you do that. You break down a successful chapter into its component pieces, and then that enables you to work with your officers to delegate all of that and then work with your members to delegate it further through committees. So yeah, a really great resource there and. Don't be scared, don't be scared of PEP, PEP is here to help you. [chuckle] Well, let's see. So my advice for Commanders, a lot has already been said either by Maury, by Christopher Brenton, by our wonderful past Commanders in our interview here. But one thing that I would say that I haven't really heard is really invest in your Greek community on campus.
0:32:05.0 Adam Girtz: Your fellow Greek organizations on your campus, assuming that you have them, I would assume that almost every chapter that we have has other chapters at the campus, but they are you're closest allies. So we lived right down the street, right across the street actually, from ATO at our campus, and it was always fun because they are our traditional rivals, but also a rival in the way that they're a close friend that you always want to compete with and try to do better than. And there was definitely a lot of that healthy competition there, but especially as Commander, I tried to cultivate an attitude where, yes, they might be rivals, but we have more in common with these guys than we have in differences. And ultimately, we were able to develop a really fun relationship with them, and I think both houses knew that if there were guys out in the front yard hanging out, that it was definitely open invitation to come over and say hello and hang out, and if we're grilling some food, there's a burger for you, kind of thing.
0:33:15.3 Adam Girtz: And that was always, I think, one of the most beneficial relationships that we had was some of those close rivalries that we were able to build and make each other better, which was always really cool. And then on top of that, supporting philanthropies and all of that, and that I think is more commonplace, but going beyond those things too, and like "Hey, what are the other chapters on our campus? What are their goals? What are they trying to accomplish? What are my fellow Commanders, or I guess chapter presidents at other chapters, what are they trying to do and how can I leverage the resources that our chapter has to help make them successful and vice versa, what can I ask of our fellow chapters to help make us more successful?"
0:34:02.5 Adam Girtz: I think a lot of chapters get mired down in competition when it comes to grade point average or philanthropy dollars, or even Greek Week or homecoming festivities and things like that. The competition is good, but it's even better if you make a focused effort to be partners with your fellow organizations as well as your Greek Life Office. I know that as well, from working on the road that that relationship can sometimes be adversarial or it can feel like, "Hey, our Greek Life Office is... They're just out to get us," or whatever. At the end of the day, no, that is definitely not true no matter how adversarial a relationship it might feel like. Their job wouldn't exist if they shut down every chapter. [chuckle] So you should really be partners with those entities on campus because they're there to help you and they want to see you succeed, so lean in on that. Ask for help when you need it and offer help when you feel it can be useful to others, and that is a great way to make everyone stronger on the campus. We talk about it in recruitment a lot, it's, "The most sure-fire way to have successful recruitment is not to take a bigger slice of the pie, it's to make a bigger pie."
0:35:25.7 Adam Girtz: So if all of our organizations are thriving, that benefits everybody on campus and not one chapter in competition over the other, not a zero sum game. So everybody can win. So yeah, that would be my advice is to use that network that you have and lean on and provide a support to lean on for other chapters on campus. Cool, well, that concludes our three-part series from College of Chapters. We hope you all enjoyed getting a window into this wonderful event that is somewhat exclusive because it is just Commanders and other officers coming, but as we've mentioned, we're working on expanding that. So if you're listening to this and you're a young member eager to step into leadership roles, look ahead to the next College of Chapters and see what you can do and see if you can... If you don't win Commander like you'd like to, maybe you can attend as a second participant in your other role. So seek out those opportunities and maybe we'll see you there next year, but in the meantime, we hope you got a lot out of our limited run series here. Christopher Brenton, what do you think?
0:36:45.6 Christopher Brenton: I really enjoyed it. Hopefully, again, we'll have the opportunity maybe to capture some audio at a Grand Chapter and try this out, but I mentioned this in the last episode, our part two, we are trying to do new things, and so if you are really enjoying this kind of remixed format of content, please let us know at newssigmanu.org, N-E-W-S sigmanu.org. We are very appreciative of the feedback that we receive, both in person and of course to that inbox, but it helps to make the podcast better and make sure that we are providing a resource that you find helpful or enjoyable to listen to, so thank you in advance, and we're excited to keep doing this in 2023.
0:37:36.0 Adam Girtz: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned in-person feedback, that was one cool thing that happened at College of Chapters that I'll share with everyone is just... There were at least, I'd say half a dozen short conversations that I was able to have where I mentioned the podcast and got a response of like, "Oh yeah, I checked it out, I listened to a couple of episodes. It's really cool," and just that little bit of feedback was really cool for me to hear. So to all the guys that I spoke to at College of Chapters, thank you guys so much, that was really cool. So yeah, thank you everyone for listening, and we will see you next month. Bye everyone.
[Outro Music]